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#Post#: 12458--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement Newly Infested Car Park
DIR By: DW190
Date: December 14, 2023, 5:05 pm
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--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
>
> Just for the sake of clarity, if the notice is addressed to
your granddaughter, then any appeal should be in her name, Civil
Enforcement won't entertain one in your name.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes I am aware of that, she is the RK.
Will do a simple appeal on signage and the lack of notice of
changes then throw the landowner in at POPLA
#Post#: 12459--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement Newly Infested Car Park
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 14, 2023, 5:07 pm
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Do let us know how you get on. Civil Enforcement can be a
stubborn bunch, but may well put you in the 'too much effort'
pile! If you'd like any feedback on appeal drafts etc. post them
here.
#Post#: 12474--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement Newly Infested Car Park
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 15, 2023, 8:39 am
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The driver has parked there many times before CE were contracted
and was unaware there had been any change until the RK received
the PCN. [and apparently disregarded the private parking signs
which have been in situ for some time]
The entrance to the car park is not what you've shown as coming
off the main road, this is Greenwood Vale, the car park entrance
is immediately off to the right of Greenwood.
It's a tight turn and I suppose it's possible to miss the 3-foot
high sign Private Parking which has been on the entrance fence
for some time but not the equally large Turkis Private Parking
sign immediately facing the driver as they enter. The one at the
entrance also has an associated 'new parking rules' sign.
Your photos omit the large sign facing drivers as they enter,
perhaps this has now gone, albeit that GSV shows this and
similar going back years.
IMO, with what an assessor could see by looking at GSV and what
we know is there now combined with what appears to be a
long-time habit of the driver disregarding these signs I would
not put any money on 'inadequate signage' being a winner.
I'm a grandparent myself and might also consider it somewhat
heroic, almost a duty, to help my grandchildren when the time
comes(hitherto restricted just to children) and if you're
underwriting the £40 discount what's there for her to lose? But
I cannot see any prospect of success based upon what appear to
be the facts:
Car park has carried private parking signs for years, albeit
with no teeth;
There are now teeth in the form of a private operator;
There is a large sign on the actual entrance which in daylight
could not be missed by a reasonably attentive driver driving
slowly as one would have to in order to negotiate the turn;
As observed by others, there is a host of signs around the car
park setting out Ts and Cs.
IMO, at present she doesn't hold a winning hand, only a wish
that in some way there would be a contractual issue which would
help her. But you have no evidence in support, just a hope.
#Post#: 12690--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement Newly Infested Car Park
DIR By: guest968
Date: December 19, 2023, 12:08 pm
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--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> Looking at ownership, I imagine the Land Registry would not
tell you if the restaurant are renting the land. Civil
Enforcement will need a contract with the landholder allowing
them to issue parking charges. They won't show you a copy, you'd
need to appeal, be rejected, and then appeal to POPLA putting
Civil Enforcement to proof that they have such a contract. This
is of course a risk.
>
--- End Quote ---
Isn't that, basically, a company alleging that someone owes them
money but not providing any proof that they actually do?
#Post#: 12691--------------------------------------------------
Re: Civil Enforcement Newly Infested Car Park
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: December 19, 2023, 12:14 pm
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--- Quote from: Scientist and Saint link ---
>
> Isn't that, basically, a company alleging that someone owes
them money but not providing any proof that they actually do?
>
--- End Quote ---
To an extent. They're not providing no evidence - they are
offering evidence that the vehicle was on the site at the times
alleged. What they aren't providing at this stage, is evidence
they have a contract with the landholder to operate on the land,
quite simply because there's nothing compelling them to do so at
this stage.
If the alleged debtor disputes that the money is owed, then it's
incumbent on the parking company to prove it is, first to POPLA
(in this case), then potentially to a court. If they can prove
it to a court on the balance of probabilities, then the money is
owed, if they cannot, then it is not.
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