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#Post#: 120434--------------------------------------------------
NIP red light A240
DIR By: allondon
Date: June 2, 2026, 12:02 pm
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Good afternoon everyone,
Just received an NIP as a keeper and I'm still trying to
understand what the driver did wrong to trigger the camera.
Offence: Drive on road other than motorway, fail comply with
red/green arrow/lane closure light signals - automatic
equipment.
Location: A240 Kingston Rd j/w Jubilee Way N/B KT4 (5020).
Recorded time into Red: 1 seconds.
I'm not familiar with the area, but here is the Google Maps link
(travelling Northbound) :
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kingston+Rd+%26+Jubilee+Way,+Chessington,+Worcester+Park+KT4+7QH/@51.3749662,-0.2770246,63a,35y,359.19h,45.05t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x48760988e3a4f5c7:0x24cc32b56df3b197!2sKingston+Rd+%26+Jubilee+Way,+Chessington,+Worcester+Park+KT4+7QH!3b1!8m2!3d51.3758121!4d-0.2769744!16s%2Fg%2F11f39j81c_!3m5!1s0x48760988e3a4f5c7:0x24cc32b56df3b197!8m2!3d51.3758121!4d-0.2769744!16s%2Fg%2F11f39j81c_?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUyNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kingston+Rd+%26+Jubilee+Way,+Chessington,+Worcester+Park+KT4+7QH/@51.3749662,-0.2770246,63a,35y,359.19h,45.05t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x48760988e3a4f5c7:0x24cc32b56df3b197!2sKingston+Rd+%26+Jubilee+Way,+Chessington,+Worcester+Park+KT4+7QH!3b1!8m2!3d51.3758121!4d-0.2769744!16s%2Fg%2F11f39j81c_!3m5!1s0x48760988e3a4f5c7:0x24cc32b56df3b197!8m2!3d51.3758121!4d-0.2769744!16s%2Fg%2F11f39j81c_?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUyNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
And here is the link to the evidence:
HTML https://u52741.imgbb.com/
HTML https://u52741.imgbb.com/
The car in question is the blue Audi.
The first picture showing the car before the box junction does
not seem to be relevant to an alleged offence.
The second and the third pictures show the car already past the
stop line and the traffic lights. The car in front is apparently
stalled, while the cars in the middle and left lanes kept
moving. Evidence showing the car crossing the line was either
not provided or does not exist, therefore I'm struggling to
understand how the offence occurred.
As it is from the police - there is no option to appeal or ask
questions, just to identify the driver.
I'd appreciate your understanding of the alleged offence and
recommended actions.
Thank you.
#Post#: 120441--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP red light A240
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 2, 2026, 12:26 pm
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--- Quote from: allondon link ---
>
> As it is from the police - there is no option to appeal or ask
questions, just to identify the driver.
>
--- End Quote ---
There is no 'appeal'. (The driver has not been convicted)
Following an allegation of an offence then the sausage-machine
kicks in. The driver identity is requested, then the usual 'out
of court' disposal will be offered - but the driver always has
the option to take the matter to court should they want to
defend (not appeal) the allegation.
The Police can always be engaged - but they may not choose to
engage prior to court.
--- Quote from: allondon link ---
>
> I'd appreciate your understanding of the alleged offence and
recommended actions.
>
--- End Quote ---
From what I see in the photo's (they are not the full evidential
versions) is that the blue Audi is straddling the stop line
(bottom left picture) whilst the light is red. Then in some
small interval (Usually around 0.5s) the car has cleared the
stop line (bottom right picture).
The offence is committed if any part of the vehicle moves over
the stop line whilst red is illuminated - this appears to be the
case?
I'll note the silver car in front appears to be stationary. To
me it looks like the traffic lights changed and the silver car
came to a halt past the stop line and the blue Audi 'swerved'
around them. The silver car appears to have its brake lights
illuminated on both snaps.
The top left picture is just a close up of the alleged offending
vehicle.
#Post#: 120443--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP red light A240
DIR By: FuzzyDuck
Date: June 2, 2026, 12:29 pm
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Agree with the above, the blue car clearly moved over the stop
line when the lights were on red.
Name the driver and let them take what they are offered.
#Post#: 120448--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP red light A240
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: June 2, 2026, 12:48 pm
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--- Quote from: allondon link ---
>
> Just received an NIP as a keeper and I'm still trying to
understand what the driver did wrong to trigger the camera.
--- End Quote ---
Whilst the proving who was driving is an essential element of
proving the red light offence, the penalty for failing to name
the driver is 6 points and a hefty fine, so the obfuscation
appropriate to private parking is mostly pointless as regards
minor criminal motoring offences.
--- Quote ---
>
> Offence: Drive on road other than motorway, fail comply with
red/green arrow/lane closure light signals - automatic
equipment.
> Location: A240 Kingston Rd j/w Jubilee Way N/B KT4 (5020).
> Recorded time into Red: 1 seconds.
--- End Quote ---
Whilst the wording of the NIP is atrocious insofar as they
appear to have taken the view that specifying the nature of the
offence is variously far too much like hard work and not their
problem, the 1 second into red, the photos and the rest of your
post suggest that the error is not fatal.
The first photo is clearly a zoomed in copy of the second photo
- whether to make the VRM easier to read, or to give the best
chance of identifying the driver.
If, as you claim, the blue Audi had already cleared the stop
line in the second photo, then there is no evidence of the
offence being committed.
However, as explained above, you claim is substantially at odds
with the evidence you purport to have based it on.
When dealing with prosecution evidence, or evidence that will be
in the prosecution's possession, it is a complete waste of
everyone's time to lie about what it shows.
#Post#: 120451--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP red light A240
DIR By: allondon
Date: June 2, 2026, 1:08 pm
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Thank you for looking into this. I'd say that on a busy road it
is not realistic for the driver to ascertain if the rear wheels
are a few centimetres on the either side of the line when most
of the body is past it. Which brings me to a scenario about how
the red light cameras work (it is likely the one that
occurred):if a car stopped over the line for whatever reason
(car in front, emergency vehicle, pedestrian) and the light
changed to red - will the camera be triggered? Or only if the
car keeps moving? And if a car has to move for any reason (e.g.
driver behind it not intending to stop)?
"The offence is committed if any part of the vehicle moves over
the stop line whilst red is illuminated " - is the camera
triggered by the weight of the wheels or by any part of the body
passing? I'm just trying to work out the proper course of action
for a driver who crossed the stop line on green or yellow but
had to stop and the light changed to red.
I always believed - apparently wrong - that the offence is to
start crossing the line (or moving past the camera) after the
light had turned red and the car that had already crossed the
line has either to keep moving or to stop - whichever is safe.
#Post#: 120459--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP red light A240
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 2, 2026, 2:58 pm
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Amber is displayed for 3 seconds (+/- 0.25s) prior to red and
means the same as red, i.e. stop.
However, you are allowed to pass at amber if you cannot (safely)
stop prior to the stop line, i.e you are just too close to it
when the light changes from green to amber. Many seem to think
the amber phase is some sort of signal to speed up or keep going
until red is seen. (Anecdotally more so in London)
So a time into red of 1 second is actually jumping the lights at
around 4 seconds - plenty of time to stop if possible. There's
no need to ascertain whether the rear wheels are a few
centimetres over the stop line - you're either coming to stop or
continuing before red is illuminated.
If you come to a stop fully past the stop line then you can
continue when it's safe to do so. (Realistically most will wait
for the lights to go green again)
It's also fine to come to a stop straddling the stop line - the
offence occurs if any part of the vehicle moves over the line
whilst red is illuminated.
If you look at the streetview you can see the buried
piezoelectric sensors (They convert pressure into electric
signals). They are strategically placed around the stop line
and they sense moving objects over them. The sensors can be
arranged in multiple pairs and can also operate as 'speed on
green' cameras.
The above should answer your questions.
#Post#: 120461--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP red light A240
DIR By: allondon
Date: June 2, 2026, 4:23 pm
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Thanks for the explanation. I now understand the nature of the
offence, though the position of the rear wheels is not visible
in the evidence. This scenario of a car fully or partially past
the stop line when the light changes is quite common, I need to
work out the correct action in any future case. And I have to
admit that I can't see the sensors around the stop line on the
Street View.
#Post#: 120491--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP red light A240
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: June 3, 2026, 2:39 am
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--- Quote from: allondon link ---
>
> though the position of the rear wheels is not visible in the
evidence.
>
--- End Quote ---
If Stevie Wonder is your Judge then that 'defence' may work.
--- Quote from: allondon link ---
>
> And I have to admit that I can't see the sensors around the
stop line on the Street View.
>
--- End Quote ---
See Here
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