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#Post#: 120685--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 stopping in a box junction, Forest
Road E17
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 4, 2026, 6:10 am
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You don't necessarily have to prove it. It's Waltham Forest's
job to convince an adjudicator on balance of probabilities that
you couldn't.
Do you know how long your vehicle is (to the centimetre)?
There's something that looks like a manhole cover on the road
just to the right of the front end of your vehicle. I think the
vehicle in front has completely cleared that, and according to
google maps distance measurer, the front of the manhole is about
5.6 metres from the edge of the box junction. The rear of the
manhole cover is about 4.4 metres from the box junction.
I'd be surprised if your vehicle is over 4.5 metres long so we
ought to be able to establish sufficient doubt!
If you pause the vehicle in front as it just clears the box
junction, the front of it is also clearly behind the front of
the manhole cover which adds weight to the argument yours would
have been too. It looks to be similar in length to your own.
Combined with this, when you come to your eventual resting point
(after you've opened the door to look back), you are only in the
box to a very limited extent (your rear wheels seem to be
resting on the boundary line). WF may say you originally
stopped further back, but that doesn't matter as the car in
front of you doesn't move over this period so you could always
have moved forward at least as far as you eventually did.
#Post#: 120697--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 stopping in a box junction, Forest
Road E17
DIR By: 845H
Date: June 4, 2026, 7:17 am
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wow, amazing viewpoint, thanks so much.
My car is 411 in length so I guess that establishes sufficient
doubt.
I have no idea how to word the appeal. Should I base my initial
appeal based on these facts or is this something I give only at
the adjuticator stage?
#Post#: 120718--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 stopping in a box junction, Forest
Road E17
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 4, 2026, 8:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Chance of council accepting your representations is almost zero
no matter how much detail you put in. But nothing lost in
showing your working up front, and will make any future appeal a
bit easier.
If you have a first go, I'm happy to brush it up.
#Post#: 120721--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 stopping in a box junction, Forest
Road E17
DIR By: 845H
Date: June 4, 2026, 9:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you so much, hows this for a first draft?
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to formally appeal the above Penalty Charge Notice
issued to my vehicle on 25/05/2026 at 10:48 on Forest Road E17 /
Kingsley Road E17
I believe this PCN was issued incorrectly and request that it be
cancelled for the following reason:
If you check the CCTV video footage you’ll note I checked I was
out of the box junction and moved forward. I could have moved
another foot or two but I was content I cleared the box.
What looks like a manhole cover on the road just to the right of
the front end of my vehicle. The vehicle in front had
completely cleared that, and according to google maps distance
measurer, the front of the manhole is about 5.6 metres from the
edge of the box junction. The rear of the manhole cover is
about 4.4 metres from the box junction.
My vehicle (2018 Mini Countryman) is 411cm long so this clearly
establishes sufficient doubt.
When the vehicle in front of mini (Nissan Note, also 411cm long)
just clears the box junction, the front of it is also clearly
behind the front of the manhole cover which adds weight to my
argument that my vehicle would have been too.
If you choose to reject this appeal, please provide the full
Notice to Owner (if an informal challenge) or the rejection
letter with the relevant appeal code so that I may escalate this
matter to an independent adjudicator at London Tribunals. [1, 2]
It will then be WF councils job to convince an adjudicator on
balance of probabilities that I couldn't have moved forward
another foot or two.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Yours faithfully,
#Post#: 120832--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 stopping in a box junction, Forest
Road E17
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 5, 2026, 5:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks - I've redrafted a little bit. See what you think.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to formally appeal the above Penalty Charge Notice
issued to my vehicle on 25/05/2026 at 10:48 on Forest Road E17 /
Kingsley Road E17. I believe this PCN was issued incorrectly and
request that it be cancelled for the following reason: the
contravention did not occur.
A box junction contravention can only occur when there is
insufficient space beyond the box junction to receive the
vehicle. This is because the contravention is defined based on
the situation where a vehicle has to stop within the box
junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
Upon my approach to the box junction, I judged that there was
sufficient receiving space for my vehicle and stopped when I
believed I had cleared the box. As the video footage shows, I
opened my door briefly to look back and check and saw that my
rear wheels were still marginally in the box and so I moved
forward a little more such that I believed I had cleared the box
completely.
The video footage shows that after this my vehicle remained in
the box to a de minimis extent (back wheels resting on the box
extremities). Even if this level of incursion is not considered
de minimis, for the reasons set out below, I am confident there
was sufficient space between my vehicle and the one in front
that I could have moved forward to clear it completely had I
opted to and thus no contravention was committed.
There is what looks like a manhole cover on the road just to the
right of the front end of my vehicle. The stationary vehicle in
front of my own had completely cleared that, and according to
google maps distance measurer, the front of the manhole is about
5.6 metres from the front edge of the box junction. The rear of
the manhole cover is about 4.4 metres from the box junction.
My vehicle (2018 Mini Countryman) is 4.11m long so on this basis
the front of my vehicle would be completely behind the manhole
cover at the point it just clears the box junction, and thus
could have moved forward and still been over a metre behind the
vehicle in front.
Further, if you pause the video around 10 seconds in when the
vehicle in front of my Mini (a Nissan Note, also 4.11m long) has
itself just cleared the box junction, the front of it is also
clearly entirely behind the manhole cover which further
strengthens the conclusion that my vehicle would have been too.
On that basis I trust you will cancel the PCN.
Yours faithfully,
#Post#: 120838--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 stopping in a box junction, Forest
Road E17
DIR By: 845H
Date: June 5, 2026, 6:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
That is awesome, thanks so much.
Its so good I would expect them to cancel it without the need to
go to the adjudicator.
#Post#: 120839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 stopping in a box junction, Forest
Road E17
DIR By: MrChips
Date: June 5, 2026, 6:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sadly I don't share your optimism! ;D
#Post#: 120841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 stopping in a box junction, Forest
Road E17
DIR By: 845H
Date: June 5, 2026, 6:14 am
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Doh!
Well its a waiting game now, thanks so much, I'll report back
when I get a response.
:D :D :D
#Post#: 120899--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 stopping in a box junction, Forest
Road E17
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 5, 2026, 6:07 pm
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--- Quote from: 845H link ---
>
> That is awesome, thanks so much.
>
> Its so good I would expect them to cancel it without the need
to go to the adjudicator.
>
--- End Quote ---
Just be aware that parking and traffic penalty payments make
London councils and TfL, well over £600 million a year, so the
chances of them cancelling are virtually nil.
#Post#: 123882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Waltham Forest, code 31 stopping in a box junction, Forest
Road E17
DIR By: 845H
Date: July 6, 2026, 7:10 am
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Yup, as suspected this was rejected, I received the letter on
Friday the 3rd July.
Whats the next best steps to take now?
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