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#Post#: 6782--------------------------------------------------
Re: A new beginning
DIR By: d612
Date: October 5, 2023, 2:51 pm
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Well depending on how desperate the aggrieved party are to
acquire the information from the admin/host whatever running the
website they can apply for a Norwich Pharmacal order.
This provides, if granted by the courts, for a party caught up
though no fault of their own to supply information about an
individual which was unobtainable by other means.
An example might be if a bank transfer had been incorrectly made
and the aggrieved party wanted to obtain the details of the
person to whom the transfer had actually gone they would apply
for the order requiring the receiving bank to divulge the
information of their customer who wrongfully received the money.
More interesting/relevant is the case of Applause Store
Productions Ltd Vs Raphael where the Norwich Pharmacal order was
granted forcing Facebook to supply the registrants details,
email address and IP addresses
See
HTML https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2008/1781.html
Or an order granted against Google forcing it to supply the
required identifying IP address etc details of the persons
unknown who was posting defamatory emails in Lockton Companies
international Ltd vs persons unknown and Google in 2009.
#Post#: 6783--------------------------------------------------
Re: A new beginning
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 5, 2023, 2:58 pm
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--- Quote from: d612 link ---
>
> Well depending on how desperate the aggrieved party are to
acquire the information from the admin/host whatever running the
website they can apply for a Norwich Pharmacal order.
>
--- End Quote ---
Of course that requires there to be a defendant who is subject
to the jurisdiction of the courts of England & Wales, upon whom
such an order could even be served.
It's also a civil law remedy, it's not something the police
would bother with.
#Post#: 6788--------------------------------------------------
Re: A new beginning
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: October 5, 2023, 3:39 pm
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--- Quote from: d612 link ---
>
> Well depending on how desperate the aggrieved party are to
acquire the information from the admin/host whatever running the
website they can apply for a Norwich Pharmacal order.
>
> This provides, if granted by the courts, for a party caught up
though no fault of their own to supply information about an
individual which was unobtainable by other means.
>
> An example might be if a bank transfer had been incorrectly
made and the aggrieved party wanted to obtain the details of the
person to whom the transfer had actually gone they would apply
for the order requiring the receiving bank to divulge the
information of their customer who wrongfully received the money.
>
> More interesting/relevant is the case of Applause Store
Productions Ltd Vs Raphael where the Norwich Pharmacal order was
granted forcing Facebook to supply the registrants details,
email address and IP addresses
> See
>
HTML https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2008/1781.html
>
> Or an order granted against Google forcing it to supply the
required identifying IP address etc details of the persons
unknown who was posting defamatory emails in Lockton Companies
international Ltd vs persons unknown and Google in 2009.
>
--- End Quote ---
You do know what I do for a living, right?
#Post#: 9169--------------------------------------------------
Re: A new beginning
DIR By: Tikli Chestikov
Date: November 4, 2023, 10:47 am
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--- Quote from: Southpaw82 link ---
>
> And how will the UK police demand anything from me?
>
--- End Quote ---
The user's IP address is logged here by the forum software
(bottom right of the user's post).
The police will get a Court Order and serve that Order on
whoever is named as the owner of this site.
When the site owner hands the IP address over, the police will
then serve a Court Order on the ISP who owns that IP address.
At that point, the name and address of whoever the account
relates to is disclosed. Note that the person who pays the bill
might not be the person who has been posting nasty words.
It's a long shot to get the Police to jump through such hoops
but it does happen occasionally.
It's not usually the Police who get involved in these types of
things, it's agencies higher up the chain (so you have to have
been downloading copious amounts of illegal material or posting
that you're planning on blowing up the Government before you
draw attention to yourself).
#Post#: 9170--------------------------------------------------
Re: A new beginning
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 4, 2023, 10:55 am
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--- Quote from: Tikli Chestikov link ---
>
> [quote author=Southpaw82 link=topic=11.msg6714#msg6714
date=1696443804]
> And how will the UK police demand anything from me?
>
--- End Quote ---
The user's IP address is logged here by the forum software
(bottom right of the user's post).
The police will get a Court Order...
[/quote]
From what court?
And under what powers would such an order be granted?
--- Quote from: Tikli Chestikov link ---
>
> and serve that Order on whoever is named as the owner of this
site.
>
--- End Quote ---
Named by whom? Are you talking about the owner of the domain, or
the owner of the hosting platform? Please bear in mind that
neither are in England and Wales, so it might be difficult to
effect service and it would be even more difficult for an
English court to have jurisdiction over either party in the
first place.
Your entire premise therefore seems to fall flat on its face,
not for the first time I hasten to add.
Just out of curiosity, have you even been to court or conducted
legal proceedings? You're talking an awful lot about what the
police and the courts will and won't do, but the fact that
you've skimming over the obvious practical problems the courts
and the police would encounter suggest you have no real
experience of any of this.
#Post#: 9196--------------------------------------------------
Re: A new beginning
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: November 4, 2023, 2:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Tikli Chestikov link ---
> The police will get a Court Order and serve that Order on
whoever is named as the owner of this site.
--- End Quote ---
Great. I’m not in the UK, so I have no obligation to comply with
an order issued by a UK court.
#Post#: 9199--------------------------------------------------
Re: A new beginning
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: November 4, 2023, 2:30 pm
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I am not at all happy with this situation.
#Post#: 9200--------------------------------------------------
Re: A new beginning
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 4, 2023, 2:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> I am not at all happy with this situation.
>
--- End Quote ---
What situation?
#Post#: 9212--------------------------------------------------
Re: A new beginning
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: November 4, 2023, 3:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
>
> Frankly, I am not of the opinion that pepipoo should not be
usurped in this manner by the other site. It leads to
duplication of effort and, indeed, mix ups as to who is
representing whom.
>
> I would also state that pepipoo is, essentially, a forum which
acts in a collegiate manner; but, sadly, it appears to me that
this is no longer the case.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 9216--------------------------------------------------
Re: A new beginning
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 4, 2023, 3:34 pm
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but for what it's
worth:
1) Pepipoo is buggy as hell. My primary issue with pepipoo is
that if you go through unread threads in reverse date order, it
will randomly mark a bunch of read threads as unread, so you
have no idea how far you've got. There are workarounds, like
opening every unread thread in a new tab, but that is hardly a
practical solution. Other issues are that it often becomes
randomly unresponsive, it limits the number of PMs that can be
sent, it's horrendously insecure (basically anyone with basic
hacking skills could break it and do whatever they want), and
the media consistently refuse to mention it for somewhat obvious
reasons.
2) We've got a pretty good thing going here: we have all sorts
of nice features like the embedded youtube functionality, we can
tweak the admin settings, and moderation activity is shared
amongst a number of competent people. For instance when people
post broken links, or try and fail to embed images into a post
or whatever else (which happens a lot), there's a number of
people who can simply fix that. On pepipoo, we'd be reliant on
southpaw fixing everything for everyone, which is unrealistic.
3) Ultimately this site is maintained, the old one isn't. There
are no admins around on pepipoo, and even when there were around
they didn't exactly do much. During the last couple of outages,
there was complete radio silence which has not ended. By
contrast when we had a DNS issue on here (did anyone even
notice?), I was able to get it fixed within 30 minutes and we
were back online.
4) Unless something changes, we all agree pepipoo will fall over
eventually.
Now, when we had no alternative I had to put up with all the
issues at point 1 as there was no alternative. Now that we have
an alternative that is technically and functionally better, I
see no reason to give advice to people on a website that is
creaking along while we wait for the wheels to come off.
I understand some people have a very strong emotional attachment
to pepipoo, but ultimately our mission is to provide free and
impartial legal advice to members of the public who are in need
of such advice in areas of law where seeking paid legal advice
is simply unviable, as Parliament has decided that legal aid
should not be available and the commercial market is unable to
provide such advice at affordable rates. The website to be used
for such purposes is simply a means to an end, I think it is
somewhat misguided to lose sight of the end and focus so much on
the means.
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