DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 119320--------------------------------------------------
Southwark Council - Code 33e Bus Gate / Dulwich Village
(Northbound towards Pickwick Road)
DIR By: terminator2000
Date: May 20, 2026, 9:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello everyone,
I’ve received a PCN from Southwark Council for allegedly driving
through a route restricted to certain vehicles (buses, cycles
and taxis only).
Details:
* Council: Southwark Council
* Contravention code: 33e
* Location: Dulwich Village (Northbound) towards Pickwick Road
* Date/time: 12/05/2026 at 15:04
* PCN issued: 18/05/2026
I’m posting here to see whether there may be any grounds to
appeal before deciding whether to pay or challenge it.
I approached the bus gate roundabout via Dulwich Village Road
and took the 3rd exit onto Burbage Road before entering the
restricted area.
PCN letter links:
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/enJqBuy
(PCN letter pages 1-2)
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/hpKQe9M
(PCN letter pages 3-4)
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/mjJ55Vp
(video footage entering Burbage
Rd)
Google maps location of road approaching bus gate roundabout
(turning right/3rd exit onto Burbage Rd):
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/HwPVXMWSM6PibmTNA
I’d really appreciate any advice on whether the signage, road
layout, or PCN itself may provide grounds for challenge.
Thanks very much for your help. :)
#Post#: 119345--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Code 33e Bus Gate / Dulwich Village
(Northbound towards Pickwick Road)
DIR By: ryan93
Date: May 20, 2026, 1:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Family member received the same PCN in Sep 2024, the chief
adjudicator allowed the appeal on the basis of a collateral
challenge, because Southwark's PCN portal miscited the date for
increasing the PCN charge to a charge certificate. It was a
screenshot that won the case. We also challenged the PCN wording
that's identical to the wording in your PCN in regards to the
period for issuing a charge certificate. Paragraph 5(2)(a) under
Schedule 1 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for
London Act 2003 sets the period for issuing a charge certificate
as 28 days from the date of service of the notice. We argued the
PCN wording disregarded the service period and it did not meet
the strict legal criteria thus was unenforceable. Had mentioned
the extensive information on the associated time-plate cannot be
assimilated under the conditions of the roundabout. The
adjudicator was more interested in the PCN portal argument. Just
make sure you routinely take screenshots of the PCN portal
incase Southwark make an error when citing dates and such like.
#Post#: 119347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Code 33e Bus Gate / Dulwich Village
(Northbound towards Pickwick Road)
DIR By: terminator2000
Date: May 20, 2026, 2:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your reply Ryan, your insight is really helpful!
:)
I just looked on the PCN portal again, and I can't find any date
for PCN increase to Charge Certificate
(
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/JNYOd6O).
Please do tell me if I've
looked in the wrong place, or if maybe they have removed that
line since you raised it, maybe?
Also, how did you argue the case for issuing the charge
certificate? As far as I can tell, Southwark also say it's 28
days after notice is served? How does this relate to Paragraph
5(2)(a) under Schedule 1 of the London Local Authorities and
Transport for London Act 2003? (
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/FqOQTot)
I like the argument of the information dense time-plate on the
entrance to Burbage Rd. Did they not counter it with the sign
also being present on the entry road into the roundabout?
(
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/DI7FY5M)
Thank you again Ryan, you've been a tremendous help!
#Post#: 119351--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Code 33e Bus Gate / Dulwich Village
(Northbound towards Pickwick Road)
DIR By: ryan93
Date: May 20, 2026, 3:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Just below the image from the ANPR camera on Page 1 of the PCN
paperwork it states:
“If full payment has not been made before the end of the period
of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice, a Charge
Certificate may be issued increasing the amount outstanding by
50% to £240.”
That was the same PCN wording that I challenged when I argued
the appeal. The wording should say ‘from the date of service of
this notice’ or to that effect, otherwise the appellant is not
afforded the full statutory provisions.
In terms of the PCN portal, the wording error came after they
rejected my representation, a yellow box appeared above the blue
box stating it would increase the charge by 50% on a date that
it was not meant to. I calculated the correct date from 28 days
the Notice of Rejection is served. The period of service affords
two extra days from the date of issue.
Although the PCN portal looks quite similar in appearance, the
blue box seems visually different as it now has a green border,
I wonder if they have rectified any software issues that were
causing incorrect date citations...that's why it's important to
monitor your PCN case updates on the portal. For instance
another local authority said it received my PCN challenge on a
different date than when I submitted it online, so I have used
that argument as well. In the corner of my Apple computer I
clicked the date dropdown, then I screenshot the webpage
including my desktop for evidence to ensure there was a date
stamp.
If no errors arise on the PCN portal, then it makes the case
more risky at appeal.
Before submitting representations, it’s advisable to film a
reconstruction video of the route taken from the vehicle
dashboard, I suspect your route of approach may have been via
College Road (unless I am mistaken?). Upload the video to a
platform ensure it is set to unlisted (link access only). Then
copy the youtube video link into your representations when
making a signage argument. Don’t click on the link, keep it at
zero views. When the Local Authority reject the representation,
go and check the view count, if it’s still at zero...then they
did not view attached evidence, and it may constitute a ‘failure
to consider’. You could then cite paragraph 1(7) under Schedule
1 as a supplementary legal argument.
I can draft a representation on the PCN wording and signage
points, but they will reject it. That's why the above strategy
is important to ensure you have as many lines of argument to
deploy.
#Post#: 119353--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Code 33e Bus Gate / Dulwich Village
(Northbound towards Pickwick Road)
DIR By: terminator2000
Date: May 20, 2026, 4:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Ahhh, I see.
Did they reject your representation based on the argument that
the PCN wording was incorrect?
I'll make sure to keep a look out the PCN portal for sure. Also,
thanks for the advice on screenshotting after submitting the
appeal, in case they state a different date.
Is the appeal process only after your representation is
rejected? Which makes the process riskier as it would then risk
the full £160 payment if the appeal falls through? Apologies for
all the questions...
You're right, it was via College Rd. Unfortunately, I live
outside of London and was only visiting a friend there, so I
don't think I'll be able to film a reconstruction video.
However, could I use different video/footage and still apply
that rule, in case they do not view the attached evidence?
Ryan, you've been fantastic help, honestly, thank you. A draft
would be tremendously useful, if it's not too much to ask for,
thank you again! :)
So, do you advise submitting the representation based on the PCN
wording and signage points? And then if rejected, proceed with
appeal? Is the appeal assessed by London Tribunals rather than
Southwark Council themselves?
#Post#: 119362--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Code 33e Bus Gate / Dulwich Village
(Northbound towards Pickwick Road)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 20, 2026, 5:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Ryan93 has described what we call a "collateral" challenge
against a PCN. These are based on council, (and also TfL)
mismanagement of the enforcement process and have won quite a
few adjudications at London Tribunals now, so if you're willing
to risk the full PCN penalty, then go for it. If you win you pay
nothing, and if you lose, you pay the PCN penalty, there are no
additional costs at all.
As for the contravention itself, your GSV link shows an advance
warning sign on your approach, and also, if one zooms in, one
can just see the blue "buses only" sign at the street entrance.
So I don't think one can argue on inadequacy of signage.
For some reason, GSV doesn't cover the actual roundabout at all.
Maybe they're currently working on it !
#Post#: 119378--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Code 33e Bus Gate / Dulwich Village
(Northbound towards Pickwick Road)
DIR By: ryan93
Date: May 21, 2026, 3:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=12]Incandescent[/member], thanks for your reply, noted
on signage and you may be correct, however it’s the timeplate
that gives effect to the bus gate restriction, so the approach
road can put the driver at a significant disadvantage. I will
obtain dashcam footage today to ascertain the current
perspective. Noticed a recent case on the register of appeals:
2250574895
@OP…to answer your question in the NOR they did not address my
signage argument. It was the flaws on the PCN portal relative to
the NOR that persuaded the adjudicator. TfL and Lambeth did not
contest my recent appeals in 2026, purely by virtue of
collateral arguments, however Southwark attended appeal in 2025.
If the LA rejects your representations, they should provide an
appeal code with a Notice of Rejection so that you can lodge an
appeal with London Tribunals where you can attach a letter of
appeal and more evidence, as there may be scope to make further
technical legal points to challenge administratively with the
NOR and PCN portal. While it’s possible the LA may reoffer the
discount. So you have to weigh up the risks and prospects.
Should you wish to risk the full penalty at tribunal, then you
can either represent yourself or have an appointed
representative present your case by video hearing. I only
represent close family, but can make an exception if you don’t
feel confident in representing yourself. If you win…just donate
an amount to South Essex Wildlife Hospital as they help rescue
foxes as do LFB.
I have now obtained reconstruction footage:
HTML https://ibb.co/0RYHGJK0
The advance warning sign is visible and displays the complex
timing structure, but it's quite challenging to assimilate the
full extent of the timing restrictions in transit: 'Mon - Fri
8-9am 3.00-4.30pm' especially the second time period (that
pertains to your case). The reconstruction footage also shows
that when exiting the roundabout the Bus Gate info is not
readable until the vehicle is virtually on top of the
restriction.
There was only two seconds between the point of adjusting the
course of your vehicle until you passed the sign, it would have
been difficult to take evasive action. From the point of college
road to exiting the roundabout, did you notice any signage? was
the blue bus gate sign in your window of view?
I can draft a representation in a PDF document for you to submit
via the PCN portal, I will make sure the link to the dashcam
reconstruction footage is not a hyperlink, so they would need to
actually copy and paste into a web browser to view the evidence.
#Post#: 119409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Code 33e Bus Gate / Dulwich Village
(Northbound towards Pickwick Road)
DIR By: terminator2000
Date: May 21, 2026, 8:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ryan, you are a godsend. Honestly, cannot appreciate your help
enough, thank you. Hopefully, should we win, I will definitely
donate to the South Essex Wildlife Hospital.
Thank you [member=12]Incandescent[/member] for your explanation
above on how the tribunal process works.
Also, thank you again Ryan for your explanation on the NOR
process, post-rejection of the PCN representation. As well as
taking time out of your day to film dashcam footage of the
route, I really appreciate it.
Hearing your expertise and advice, I would be grateful for your
help with the case and acting as the appointed representative
should it proceed to the London Tribunals.
Your point regarding the timeplate is how I feel too,
unfortunately, I didn't see the Bus Gate warning when exiting
the roundabout, let alone the timeplate...
Could you argue that the only warning being at the entrance of
the roundabout, and then the entry point of the exit, does not
provide enough time to take evasive action? Hence, the CCTV is
operating as a trap, rather than a preventative measure?
(
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/XyNcQsL)
Thank you for drafting a representation, will you post it here
or should I contact you privately?
Also, for the link to the dashcam footage, in case they don't
view it and reject without consideration, how would that be
proven without viewing it yourself as well, and increasing the
viewcount?
#Post#: 119429--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Code 33e Bus Gate / Dulwich Village
(Northbound towards Pickwick Road)
DIR By: ryan93
Date: May 21, 2026, 10:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Please note, I am not a legal practitioner, just a layman that
responded to your forum post.
I have not yet drafted a representation, but it should be done
by weekend.
PM your email and name. I will then email you a PDF
representation.
You said you live outside of London, is the registered keeper
address on PCN outside of London?
When submitting the challenge/representation on the PCN portal
just attach representation and write ‘please find attached
representation’ - make sure you attach it!
Before submitting the PCN challenge/representation, click the
dropdown on desktop date, take screenshot of screen, and take
another screenshot of webpage after confirmation of submission.
Then go to PCN portal take a screenshot of that. Keep evidence
organised in a folder.
Please let me know the date you intend to file the PCN challenge
on the portal so that I can screenshot youtube analytics.
Keep monitoring the PCN portal at least twice a week.
On the date they serve a Notice of Rejection or they reject your
representation, take a screenshot of the PCN portal and notify
me of such, so I can check the youtube video analytics as to
whether they viewed evidence or not. However they may view it,
so don’t get your hopes up.
For the avoidance of doubt:
HTML https://ibb.co/5XQ7bg1F
Realistically PCNs are won on legal technicalities rather than
signage.
On approaching the roundabout, did you see the advance warning
sign? What did you make of it? Or was your focus on the
roundabout entrance in case of oncoming traffic or pedestrians
crossing at the island therein?
#Post#: 119523--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southwark Council - Code 33e Bus Gate / Dulwich Village
(Northbound towards Pickwick Road)
DIR By: terminator2000
Date: May 22, 2026, 11:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Apologies for the late reply.
I’ve PM’d you all the details.
Yes, the PCN letter was sent to our home outside of London.
I’ve noted your advice on what to do when submitting. I think
screenshotting the page should suffice in my case, especially
since it clearly shows the day/date/month
(
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/3TGbkPT).
When approaching the roundabout, I honestly didn’t have time to
make out the advance warning sign. By the time I had stopped to
enter the roundabout, the roundabout sign was behind the car. As
you mentioned, my focus when approaching the roundabout was the
road and island in front, and any pedestrians potentially
crossing, so I didn’t have the opportunity to notice any
restrictions shown on the roundabout layout plate.
Furthermore, there was only 2 seconds between lining up with
Burbage Rd and actually exiting via it. In that little time, I
had no realistic opportunity to even look at the exit time
plate, let alone properly read and comprehend the two time
restrictions that applied to the road (8 - 9am , 3.00 - 4.30
pm).
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page