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#Post#: 119302--------------------------------------------------
Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction on
vehicles entering a pedestrian zone x 4 so far
DIR By: purpleshadow
Date: May 20, 2026, 7:15 am
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Hello,
I received today 4 penalty charge notices from Croydon Council.
Three in my name and one in my husband's. My daughter did 4 days
of work experience at the school there and because of distance
my husband and I dropped her off and picked her up.
I believe there will be more PCN's coming as they have "only"
sent 4 tickets for two days.
PCN's dated 19/05/2026
1. 12/05/2026 08:20:32 Springfield Rod, Thornton Heath by
Northwood Road, By Northwood Road (mine)
2. 12/05/2026 08:21:24 Ingram Rd, Thornton Heath by Carolina
Road, Near Carolina Road (mine)
I entered Springfield Road, did two right turns, dropped my
daughter off and left.
3. 13/05/2026 08:18:25 Springfield Rod, Thornton Heath by
Northwood Road, By Northwood Road (mine)
4. 13/05/2026 15:33:53 Ingram Rd, Thornton Heath by Carolina
Road, Near Carolina Road (husband)
Knowing that there are potentially a lot more tickets coming is
really distressing. Potentially 4 tickets per day for 4 days.
On Carolina Road there is a sign saying that no right turns
(Mon-Fri) 8:00 - 9:30am 2 - 4pm except authorised vehicles.
However, most of the time this sign is obscured because lots of
vans and large vehicles park on the right hand side and you have
to drive in the middle of the road so can't see that sign. There
is another sign once you turned into the road but by then I
guess it is too late?
On entering Springfield Road you are at a roundabout but there
is a sign pointing straight ahead and then one near you but on
other side of road.
Would I have chance appealing these tickets, I mean this is
almost extortion. Would I be able to claim continuous
contravention or procedural unfairness or something? It seems
totally disproportionate to the infraction?
Let me know if you want any further details. Would really hope
for some advise on this.
Many thanks
#Post#: 119309--------------------------------------------------
Re: Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction
on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone x 4 so far
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 20, 2026, 8:41 am
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You should submit representations against all of the PCNs
together that are dated before PCN 1 was served at your address.
The basis needs to be that although you now know there is an
advance sign, it is usually obscured by high-sided vehicles so
you had no warning of the restriction. In addition, you consider
that the sign, mounted on the right-hand side of the road in the
direction of travel is incorrectly mounted and should be on the
left.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/kMK1LyDqV6QbvGFC7
However, with the number of PCNs you mention, you will be
testing credibility with the council, because you would be
claiming the advance sign was missed on every one of the
ocasions you passed the restriction signs. So don't expect the
council to roll over.
Do any of the drivers not understand the meaning of the "Flying
Motorbike" signs ? They are all over London now and making
councils shedloads of money. Here is a link to read: -
HTML https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2026/05/beware-flying-motorbike-sign.html
Please post one of the PCNs, only redacting name and address.
The out-turn you want to achieve is to pay the 1st PCN at a
discount and get the others cancelled.
#Post#: 119316--------------------------------------------------
Re: Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction
on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone x 4 so far
DIR By: purpleshadow
Date: May 20, 2026, 9:12 am
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Hello Incadescent, thank you for your reply.
All 4 tickets received today are dated the same.
Also, and I probably "incriminate" myself here but we have been
taking our daughter to this school every Saturday for the last 7
years. On Saturday it isn't restricted and both my husband and
myself have never noticed these signs.
What I find very unfair is that you can be fined twice within a
minute for the same journey that is disproportionate, no?
#Post#: 119317--------------------------------------------------
Re: Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction
on vehicles entering a pedestrian zon
DIR By: purpleshadow
Date: May 20, 2026, 9:26 am
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HTML https://imgpile.com/p/6dHRA7i
Here the link to the images. the drawing is of from where I come
and where I go and blue dots of the signs. My husband luckily
only drove into Ingram Road directly and turned around there
rather than me going around and getting 2 PCN for it.
#Post#: 119355--------------------------------------------------
Re: Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction
on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone x 4 so far
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 20, 2026, 4:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
All I can say is to reiterate that you might succeed with a
non-confrontational representation on the lines I previously
suggested, and mention, (in a humble way), that you think the
total amount of the penalties is disproportionate. Post up their
response when you get it.
Have you been living long in London because use of these "FLying
Motorbike" signs have become very widespread in London over the
last 4 years or so. I would expect long term residents to be
familiar with such signs and their restrictions. These signs are
the equivalent of the traditional No Entry sign; would you have
passed these ?
#Post#: 119399--------------------------------------------------
Re: Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction
on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone x 4 so far
DIR By: purpleshadow
Date: May 21, 2026, 7:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
3 more tickets arrived today.
#Post#: 119403--------------------------------------------------
Re: Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction
on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone x 4 so far
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 21, 2026, 7:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: purpleshadow link ---
>
> 3 more tickets arrived today.
>
--- End Quote ---
Try and contact the council to find out how many more are on the
way. All I can suggest is you submit reps on the basis of not
knowing of the contravention until the first PCN arrived. If
they prove obdurate, you could try contacting your local
councillor on the matter, (the insistence on a grossly
disproportionate penalty for a simple mistake). It would be
something of a gamble taking the matter to London Tribunals,
because each of the PCNs would seem to have been lawfully
served.
#Post#: 119635--------------------------------------------------
Re: Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction
on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone x 4 so far
DIR By: purpleshadow
Date: May 24, 2026, 8:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Good afternoon, I have created 5 separate appeals for Croydon
Council and was wondering if you could cast your knowledgeable
eye on these? Would you remove/add something else. Many thanks.
Sorry for the long, repetitive post.
PCN 1:
PCN Number: CR24097859
Date of Contravention: 12 May 2026 at 08:20
Location: Springfield Road, Thornton Heath, by Northwood Road
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge
Notice and respectfully request that it be cancelled for the
reasons set out below.
Background and Context
On 12 May 2026, I was dropping my daughter off at St Cyprian's
Greek Orthodox Primary Academy, Thornton Heath, where she was
undertaking a formal week of work experience. This was a
temporary, one-off arrangement and not a regular weekday
journey. I am not a regular weekday driver in this area. For the
past seven years I have driven to the same school exclusively on
Saturdays, on which day there is no restriction in operation. I
had no prior knowledge of the Healthy School Streets
restriction.
Ground 1: Inadequate and Flawed Advance Signage: Northwood Road
Approach
The advance warning sign alerting drivers to the Springfield
Road restriction is critically flawed in its placement. As
confirmed by Google Street View imagery of Northwood Road (April
2025), this sign is mounted exclusively on the right-hand side
of the road. Under standard UK traffic management principles,
regulatory signs should be positioned on the left-hand side so
that they fall naturally within a driver’s forward line of
sight. Placing this sign on the right is non-standard and means
it sits entirely outside the sightline of a driver approaching
the junction in normal traffic conditions. Furthermore, this
right-hand sign is positioned directly alongside a TfL bus stop
serving Route 450 towards Crystal Palace. If a bus is stopped at
this stop during the morning school run restriction hours (as is
entirely routine), the sign is completely physically obscured
from oncoming traffic. As the driver of a Fiat 500, a low-slung
vehicle, my eye level is further compressed, meaning my view of
this already non-standard right-hand sign was blocked by the
roadside infrastructure on the mornings in question. The sign at
the entry to Springfield Road itself is also positioned on the
right-hand side at the roundabout exit and faces directly
towards oncoming traffic at an angle that makes it genuinely
ambiguous as to whether it applies to Springfield Road or to
Northwood Road continuing straight ahead. There is a further
sign inside Springfield Road, which I did not see in time given
the speed of travel through a roundabout junction. It is wholly
unreasonable to penalise a driver on the basis of signage that
is improperly positioned, liable to be obscured by routine bus
operations, and ambiguous in its application.
Ground 2: Notification Delay
This PCN was not received until 19 May 2026. The issue is not
the time taken for postal delivery but the absence of any
contemporaneous notice at the time of the first contravention.
Because no notification was issued at the point of the offence,
I continued to use the same route on 13 and 14 May in complete
ignorance that I had done anything wrong. The lack of
contemporaneous notice created a financial trap: penalties
accumulated silently while I remained entirely unaware. Had any
notification been received after 12 May, the subsequent
contraventions, including PCNs CR24101617, CR24109007 and
CR24103678, would not have occurred. The journeys on 13 and 14
May, taking place entirely before the first notice was served,
constitute a continuous contravention born out of initial
ignorance rather than separate, deliberate breaches.
Ground 3: Disproportionality
I have received five Penalty Charge Notices in connection with
what was a single temporary arrangement to support my daughter's
formal work experience placement. The cumulative penalty of £400
(5 x £80) is wholly disproportionate to the nature of the
infraction, which caused no harm, was not deliberate, and arose
from a genuine and reasonable failure to identify ambiguous
signage. The contraventions on 13 and 14 May constitute a
continuous contravention arising from the same initial
ignorance, not separate wilful breaches. I respectfully ask that
the council take this into account.
I trust that the above representations will be considered
carefully and look forward to your response.
PCN2
PCN Number: CR24098603
Date of Contravention: 12 May 2026 at 08:21
Location: Ingram Road, Thornton Heath, by Carolina Road
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge
Notice and respectfully request that it be cancelled for the
reasons set out below.
Background and Context
On 12 May 2026, I was dropping my daughter off at St Cyprian's
Greek Orthodox Primary Academy, Thornton Heath, where she was
undertaking a formal week of work experience. This was a
temporary, one-off arrangement. I am not a regular weekday
driver in this area and had no prior knowledge of the Healthy
School Streets restriction.
Ground 1: This PCN Relates to the Same Continuous Journey as
CR24097859
I must draw to the council's attention that this PCN was issued
at 08:21:24 on 12 May 2026, precisely one minute after PCN
CR24097859, which was issued at 08:20:32 on the same morning.
Both contraventions arose from a single, uninterrupted journey:
I entered Springfield Road, turned right onto Carolina Road, and
turned right onto Ingram Road solely to avoid reversing on a
narrow residential road. This was one continuous journey with
one decision to enter the area, not two separate or deliberate
decisions to breach a restriction. It would be wholly
disproportionate to impose two full penalties for what was a
single act of entry.
Ground 2: Signage on Carolina Road Obscured by Legally Parked
Vehicles
The no-right-turn sign on Carolina Road is positioned on the
left-hand side of the road at pavement level. On the morning in
question, white vans were legally parked on the left-hand side
of Carolina Road. As the driver of a Fiat 500, a low-slung
vehicle, my sightline to this sign was entirely blocked by the
parked vehicles. I was required to drive in the centre of the
road to pass them, which placed me further from the sign and
made it impossible to see. Google Street View imagery of this
location corroborates that the sign is positioned in a spot
where any standard-height vehicle parked legally alongside it
would obstruct the view of a driver in a low vehicle.
Ground 3: Ingram Road Signs Not Visible Before the Turn
There is an advance warning sign on Carolina Road before the
turn into Ingram Road. However, as set out in Ground 2 above,
this sign was not visible to me on the morning in question
because it was obscured by legally parked vans on the left-hand
side of the road. I was driving in the centre of the road to
pass those vehicles and had no sightline to the sign.
Furthermore, the restriction signs on Ingram Road itself are
positioned facing along the road and only become visible to a
driver after the right turn from Carolina Road has already been
completed. By the time those signs are visible, the
contravention has already been recorded. In the absence of any
visible advance warning, a driver cannot be reasonably expected
to comply with a restriction they had no opportunity to see
before the relevant decision point.
Ground 4: Notification Delay
This PCN was not received until 19 May 2026. The issue is not
the time taken for postal delivery but the absence of any
contemporaneous notice at the time of the first contravention.
No notification was issued at the point of the offence, and so I
continued to use the same route on 13 and 14 May in complete
ignorance. The lack of contemporaneous notice created a
financial trap: penalties accumulated silently while I remained
unaware. Because all contraventions took place before the first
notice was served, they constitute a continuous contravention
born out of initial ignorance rather than separate, deliberate
breaches.
Ground 5: Disproportionality
I have received five Penalty Charge Notices in total, with a
cumulative penalty of £400, in connection with a single
temporary arrangement to support my daughter's formal work
experience. The contraventions across all five PCNs constitute a
continuous contravention arising from the same initial ignorance
of the restriction, not separate wilful acts. I respectfully
submit that a cumulative penalty of £400 is wholly
disproportionate in these circumstances.
PCN3:
PCN Number: CR24101617
Date of Contravention: 13 May 2026 at 08:18
Location: Springfield Road, Thornton Heath, by Northwood Road
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge
Notice and respectfully request that it be cancelled for the
reasons set out below.
Background and Context
On 13 May 2026, I was again dropping my daughter off at St
Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy for her formal work
experience placement. I used the same route as on 12 May as I
had not yet received any notification that my earlier journey
had triggered a Penalty Charge Notice.
Ground 1: Notification Delay (Primary Ground)
The PCN relating to my journey on 12 May 2026 (CR24097859) was
not received until 19 May 2026. The issue is not the time taken
for postal delivery but the absence of any contemporaneous
notice at the time of the first contravention. Because no
notification was issued at the point of the offence, I continued
to use the same route on 13 May in complete ignorance. The lack
of contemporaneous notice created a financial trap: a further
penalty accumulated silently while I remained entirely unaware I
had done anything wrong. The contravention on 13 May, having
taken place before the first notice was served, constitutes part
of a continuous contravention born out of initial ignorance
rather than a separate, deliberate breach. It would be unjust to
impose a further full penalty in these circumstances.
Ground 2: Inadequate and Flawed Advance Signage: Northwood Road
Approach
As set out in my representation against CR24097859, the advance
warning sign on Northwood Road is mounted on the right-hand side
of the road, contrary to standard UK traffic management
principles which require regulatory signs to be positioned on
the left. It is also positioned directly alongside a TfL bus
stop (Route 450), meaning any bus stopped during the morning
restriction hours would physically block the sign from oncoming
traffic. As the driver of a Fiat 500, a low-slung vehicle, my
sightline to this already non-standard sign was further
compressed by the surrounding roadside infrastructure. I had not
identified it as applying to Springfield Road on my first
journey and had no reason to approach it differently on the
second.
Ground 3: Disproportionality
This PCN is one of five I have received in connection with a
single temporary arrangement to support my daughter's formal
work experience. The contraventions across all five PCNs
constitute a continuous contravention arising from the same
initial ignorance of the restriction, not separate wilful acts.
A cumulative penalty of £400 is wholly disproportionate,
particularly where, as here, this specific contravention would
not have occurred had contemporaneous notice been issued after
the first.
PCN4
PCN Number: CR24109007
Date of Contravention: 14 May 2026 at 08:25
Location: Springfield Road, Thornton Heath, by Northwood Road
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge
Notice and respectfully request that it be cancelled for the
reasons set out below.
Background and Context
On 14 May 2026, I was dropping my daughter off at St Cyprian's
Greek Orthodox Primary Academy for the final day of her formal
work experience placement. I had still not received any
notification of the earlier contraventions on 12 and 13 May.
Ground 1: Notification Delay (Primary Ground)
The first PCN (CR24097859, 12 May) was not received until 19 May
2026, five days after this contravention. Neither the 12 May nor
the 13 May PCNs had been received by 14 May. The issue is not
the time taken for postal delivery but the complete absence of
contemporaneous notice at the point of the first offence. Had
any notification been issued after 12 May, I would have become
aware of the restriction and would not have used this route
again. The lack of contemporaneous notice created a financial
trap in which penalties continued to accumulate while I remained
entirely unaware. The contraventions on 13 and 14 May, occurring
entirely before the first notice was served, constitute a
continuous contravention born out of initial ignorance rather
than separate, deliberate breaches.
Ground 2: Inadequate and Flawed Advance Signage: Northwood Road
Approach
As set out in my representations against CR24097859 and
CR24101617, the advance warning sign on Northwood Road is
mounted on the right-hand side of the road, contrary to standard
UK traffic management principles which require regulatory signs
to be positioned on the left. It is also positioned directly
alongside a TfL bus stop (Route 450), meaning any bus stopped
during the morning restriction hours would physically block the
sign from oncoming traffic. As the driver of a Fiat 500, my
sightline to this already non-standard sign was further
compressed by the surrounding roadside infrastructure. I had not
identified it as applying to Springfield Road on either of my
two previous journeys.
Ground 3: Disproportionality
This PCN is one of five I have received, with a total cumulative
penalty of £400, in connection with a single temporary
arrangement to drop my daughter at school for one week of work
experience. I had no intention to flout any restriction and was
entirely unaware one existed. The contraventions across all five
PCNs constitute a continuous contravention arising from the same
initial ignorance, not separate wilful acts. I respectfully ask
the council to consider the totality of the circumstances and
exercise its discretion accordingly.
PCN5
PCN Number: CR24103678
Date of Contravention: 14 May 2026 at 08:25
Location: Ingram Road, Thornton Heath, by Carolina Road
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge
Notice and respectfully request that it be cancelled for the
reasons set out below.
Background and Context
On 14 May 2026, I was completing the school drop-off for the
final day of my daughter's formal work experience placement at
St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy. I had still not
received any notification of the four earlier contraventions on
12 and 13 May.
Ground 1: This PCN Relates to the Same Continuous Journey as
CR24109007
This PCN was issued at 08:25:57 on 14 May 2026, within moments
of PCN CR24109007 issued at 08:25:57 on the same morning at
Springfield Road. Both arose from a single uninterrupted
drop-off journey: Springfield Road to Carolina Road to Ingram
Road. This was one continuous journey with one decision to enter
the area, not two separate contraventions. I respectfully submit
it is disproportionate and unjust to impose two full penalties
for a single act.
Ground 2: Signage on Carolina Road Obscured
As set out in my representation against CR24098603, the
no-right-turn sign on Carolina Road is positioned at pavement
level on the left-hand side. White vans were legally parked
alongside it on the morning in question. As the driver of a Fiat
500, a low vehicle, my sightline to the sign was completely
blocked. I was driving in the centre of the road to pass the
parked vehicles and the sign was not visible to me.
Ground 3: Ingram Road Signs Not Visible Before the Turn
As set out in my representation against CR24098603, there is an
advance warning sign on Carolina Road before the turn into
Ingram Road. However, on the morning in question this sign was
obscured by legally parked vans on the left-hand side of
Carolina Road. As the driver of a Fiat 500, a low-slung vehicle,
my sightline to the sign was completely blocked by those
vehicles. I was driving in the centre of the road to pass them
and the sign was not visible. Additionally, the restriction
signs on Ingram Road itself only become visible once the right
turn from Carolina Road has already been completed. In the
absence of any visible advance warning, I had no opportunity to
identify the restriction before the contravention was recorded.
Ground 4: Notification Delay
Not one of the four earlier PCNs had been received by 14 May.
The issue is not the time taken for postal delivery but the
complete absence of contemporaneous notice at the point of the
first offence. Had any notification been issued after 12 May, I
would not have used this route again. The lack of
contemporaneous notice created a financial trap in which
penalties continued to accumulate silently. All contraventions
after 12 May, having taken place before the first notice was
served, constitute a continuous contravention born out of
initial ignorance rather than separate, deliberate breaches.
Ground 5: Disproportionality
This is the fifth and final PCN I have received in connection
with one week of school drop-offs for a formal work experience
placement. The cumulative penalty of £400 is entirely
disproportionate to what was an honest mistake arising from
genuinely inadequate and ambiguous signage, compounded by the
complete absence of contemporaneous notice after the first
contravention. All five contraventions constitute a continuous
contravention arising from the same initial ignorance, not
separate wilful acts. I respectfully ask the council to exercise
its discretion and cancel this notice.
#Post#: 119652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction
on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone x 4 so far
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 24, 2026, 2:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Make sure you clearly link all of the PCNs in each
representation. Hopefuuly, you'll end up paying only one.
#Post#: 124116--------------------------------------------------
Re: Croydon Council - 53J Failing to comply with a restriction
on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone x 4 so far
DIR By: purpleshadow
Date: July 8, 2026, 3:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Good evening,
I just wanted to give an update and say that Croydon Council
cancelled 4 out of 7 tickets. They rejected the first PCN for
each street.
Thanks for all your help.
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