DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
*****************************************************
#Post#: 119101--------------------------------------------------
Subject: NIP for 36 mph in a 30 mph zone - Bondgate, Helmsley
(Measurement dista
DIR By: Thomas
Date: May 18, 2026, 2:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi everyone,
I need some expert advice regarding a NIP I received from North
Yorkshire Police.
Location: Bondgate, Helmsley
Alleged offence: 36 mph in a 30 mph limit
Direction of travel: Travelling outbound (leaving Helmsley
towards the 40 mph zone)
Laser distance shown on the image: 347.9m
According to my measurements on Google Maps, the mobile speed
van parks at its approved site near the Linkfoot Lane junction.
If you measure exactly 347.9 metres from that position outbound,
the measurement point falls more than 50 metres AFTER the 40 mph
speed limit signs (past the central island traffic splitter).
Furthermore, the photo provided by the police shows my vehicle
already on the bend/curve of the road. The 40 mph signs and the
traffic island are completely missing from the frame, which
proves they were already behind my car when the laser was fired.
It seems the operator targeted my vehicle after I had legally
entered the 40 mph zone, but the ticket office is processing
this automatically as a 30 mph violation based purely on the
van's parking position.
I have already named myself as the driver, and I have now
received the conditional offer/course option. I strongly intend
to take this to court (Option 3) because the technical evidence
proves I was in the 40 mph zone.
Could someone please double-check these coordinates and advise
if my defense is solid?
Thank you in advance!
Links for the photos:
HTML https://ibb.co/RGRbtrB3
HTML https://ibb.co/spytqdrT
HTML https://ibb.co/yB55KR94
#Post#: 119113--------------------------------------------------
Re: Subject: NIP for 36 mph in a 30 mph zone - Bondgate,
Helmsley (Measurement dista
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: May 18, 2026, 3:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Thomas link ---
>
> …the mobile speed van parks at its approved site near the
Linkfoot Lane junction
>
--- End Quote ---
There's no such thing. Without knowing their exact location at
the relevant time there's an element of guesswork.
The foreshortening effect of the camera can distort distance.
A common setup procedure is to 'ping' the speed sign to confirm
its distance from the operator. Any capture less than that
distance is still in the 30mph. Whilst potentially a
distasteful way of operating perhaps they caught you
accelerating prior to the 40mph terminal sign?
#Post#: 119122--------------------------------------------------
Re: Subject: NIP for 36 mph in a 30 mph zone - Bondgate,
Helmsley (Measurement dista
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: May 18, 2026, 5:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Screenshot of the location is pointless - a GSV link would
potentially enable us to perform a sanity check to determine
whether the distance is consistent with the talivan being sited
at the "approved" site.
I would dispute the assertion that there is no such thing as an
"approved site", and replace it with the assertion that
"approval" is essentially meaningless.
#Post#: 119131--------------------------------------------------
Re: Subject: NIP for 36 mph in a 30 mph zone - Bondgate,
Helmsley (Measurement dista
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: May 19, 2026, 3:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> Screenshot of the location is pointless - a GSV link would
potentially enable us to perform a sanity check to determine
whether the distance is consistent with the talivan being sited
at the "approved" site.
>
--- End Quote ---
Seems to be here.
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.2471964,-1.0514157,3a,90y,97.15h,84.74t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sIly5DodEx2E3oRj7DcwB7Q!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D5.264489184234407%26panoid%3DIly5DodEx2E3oRj7DcwB7Q%26yaw%3D97.14911353335765!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUxMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
--- Quote from: andy_foster link ---
>
> I would dispute the assertion that there is no such thing as
an "approved site", and replace it with the assertion that
"approval" is essentially meaningless.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, yes. NYP may well have sites listed but any such
'approval' is merely internal.
Their public-facing stats just list 'A170 Bondgate, Helmsley'.
I can't find anything more specific but the layby near Carlton
Road (Which is just over 350m away from the 40mph terminal sign)
looks like a prime spot.
There's potentially a secondary question around whether the
40mph terminal sign (if it is a close ping) is located in the
correct position relative to the TRO.
#Post#: 119142--------------------------------------------------
Re: Subject: NIP for 36 mph in a 30 mph zone - Bondgate,
Helmsley (Measurement dista
DIR By: Thomas
Date: May 19, 2026, 4:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Seems to be here...
If I were here in the photo, I would have a lay-by with a speed
limit of 40 in front of the car and lanes closed to traffic and
a lanes to the exit from the intersection on right
#Post#: 119143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Subject: NIP for 36 mph in a 30 mph zone - Bondgate,
Helmsley (Measurement dista
DIR By: Thomas
Date: May 19, 2026, 4:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
An even bigger issue has just come to light regarding the locus
(location) stated on the NIP.
The NIP states the location of the alleged offence as "Bondgate,
Helmsley". However, I was actually on a completely different
road name Link foot Ln at the time of the measurement (the A170
heading out towards Scarborough, past the terminal signs).
If the police have named the wrong street/location on the
official Notice, does this constitute a "fatal flaw" in the
prosecution's case? How strictly is the location requirement
enforced in court for mobile speed van offences in North
Yorkshire?
Thank you all for the swift and very detailed responses.
Here is the Google Street View link to the location of the 40
mph terminal signs (outbound):
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/wAkaU8M9N1mGAnwMA
Regarding the van's position:
If the van was parked in the layby near Carlton Road, the
distance from that layby to the 40 mph signs is indeed roughly
350-355 metres.
However, looking closely at the camera's field of view in the
NIP photo, the vehicle is already positioned well into the
left-hand bend (which curves past the 40 mph signs towards the
open fields).
If the laser was fired at 347.9m, and the layby-to-sign distance
is around 352m, that would mathematically put me about 4-5
metres before the sign. But visually, on the photo, the central
splitter island and the 40 mph signs themselves are completely
behind the camera's frame/view, and the car is already on the
banking of the curve.
Could the foreshortening effect of a teleobiektyw lens distort
the perspective so heavily that a car already on the physical
bend appears to be at 347m, or is it possible the van was parked
slightly further back than the Carlton Road layby (e.g., closer
to Linkfoot Lane)?
I will try to upload the redacted image via an external hosting
site shortly so you can judge the curve perspective yourself.
Regarding the TRO - how can I check if the physical signs match
the legal boundary for this specific stretch of the A170?
#Post#: 119145--------------------------------------------------
Re: Subject: NIP for 36 mph in a 30 mph zone - Bondgate,
Helmsley (Measurement dista
DIR By: FuzzyDuck
Date: May 19, 2026, 4:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Be aware, the image you have been sent might not be at the point
the "ping" was done. It is possible the ping was a number of
seconds prior to the image supplied. This would only become
apparent if the actual video was viewed, the police will not
release that prior to the matter proceeding to court.
#Post#: 119150--------------------------------------------------
Re: Subject: NIP for 36 mph in a 30 mph zone - Bondgate,
Helmsley (Measurement dista
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: May 19, 2026, 4:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Thomas link ---
>
> An even bigger issue has just come to light <snip> if the
police have named the wrong street/location on the official
Notice, does this constitute a "fatal flaw" in the prosecution's
case? How strictly is the location requirement enforced in court
for mobile speed van offences in North Yorkshire?
>
--- End Quote ---
No. The location is merely directory.
--- Quote from: Thomas link ---
>
> Could the foreshortening effect of a teleobiektyw lens distort
the perspective so heavily that a car already on the physical
bend appears to be at 347m, or is it possible the van was parked
slightly further back than the Carlton Road layby (e.g., closer
to Linkfoot Lane)?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's possible - I can find any reference point on the supplied
photo.
--- Quote from: Thomas link ---
>
> Regarding the TRO - how can I check if the physical signs
match the legal boundary for this specific stretch of the A170?
>
--- End Quote ---
Contact the highways team at the local council.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 1