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#Post#: 116299--------------------------------------------------
LBH&F PCN - 52M - failing to comply with a prohibition on
certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles - Rivercourt Road
DIR By: JohnWick
Date: April 18, 2026, 4:44 pm
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Hi there
Caught on CCTV driving on a restricted road, and have been
issued with 2 x PCNs.
The contraventions took place in November '25, however the PCNs
were only sent to me at the end of Mar '26. The vehicle in
question was a hire vehicle. I've confirmed with the rental
company that the initial PCNs were sent dated 19/11/2025, and
that they processed the transfer of liability back to me on
21/11/2025.
I have a couple of issues:
* The signage is obscured until you've already turned onto the
road in question (Google Maps link below)
* It's unclear to me why it would take >4 months to have the PCN
sent out. It's difficult to remember the exact conditions at the
time
* Can I receive a PCN for the same offence in roughly a 24
period here? It seems particularly harsh given the signage isn't
clear
Imgur contains:
* PCN letters received from London Borough of Hammersmith &
Fulham (LBH&F)
HTML https://imgur.com/a/xhtiOwx
This gives an overview of where the alleged contraventions took
place:
HTML https://i0.wp.com/www.hammersmithsociety.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Rivercourt-council-info-.jpg?ssl=1
Here's a view of the location on Google maps, illustrating how
the signage isn't visible until you've already started turned
onto the road (and off the A4) - trying to undo this manoeuvre
would be dangerous:
HTML https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.491361,-0.236318,3a,75y,8.52h,94.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw9c1X9n5yG3HjfsKBs-s_A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-4.295246794486772%26panoid%3Dw9c1X9n5yG3HjfsKBs-s_A%26yaw%3D8.515127818298538!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDQxNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
I can go and take a photo or video of the approach to the road
if that would be in any way helpful.
Thanks very much for any help anyone can offer.
#Post#: 116304--------------------------------------------------
Re: LBH&F PCN - 52M - failing to comply with a prohibition
on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles - RivercourtRo
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 18, 2026, 7:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The process of transferring liability is that the hire company
submit reps giving your name and address as the hirer on the day
of the alleged contravention. The council then cancel the first
PCN and then have 28 days to serve one on you.
So you should submit representations that the PCNs have been
served out of time.
You need to use another hosting site because 'imgur' no longer
serve the UK.
The location is very well known on this forum and is notorious
for being probably the worst and most dangerous restriction ever
introduced in London. So bad that the person who signed it off
should have been sacked long ago. It does seem from your posting
of alterations to the restriction that some person with more
sense has taken over to make it a bit better. I see Rivercourt
Road is now to be two way, and a mini-roundabout is to be
installed to allow people to turn round and, (presumably)
return to the A4. I assume the actual restriction signs will be
moved back to allow a motorist to turn round and return to the
A4 in reasonable safety. However, we have not seen any of the
signage associated with this change, and I don't expect Google
Street View is yet up-to-date, assuming the new arrangements are
now in force, but from your post, I suspect the original scheme
is still in place
The signage on the A4 is a total disgrace and one wonders at the
sanity of the people in LBH&F's Highways Department. Just look
at this temporary sign: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/CBXYiQYaZrkA1s8e9
How on earth are you going to see that with the very heavy
traffic on this road ? Then there is this other temporary sign
again easy to miss and also its all text so one must know the
street name.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/ageYnNfkmpiAMN539
Its just insanity, pure and simple. But of course it's a nice
little trap to get the PCN penalty money in.
Your GSV link shows the original very dangerous set-up, with the
signs placed as you turn in off a 40mph busy A4. There is no
means of turning round, and one must be force to pass the signs.
LBH&F have never let this restriction get to adjudication,
because I am certain they would be excoriated for its bovine
stupidity and dangerous nature.
What we need are up-to-date photos of signage on the A4 on
approach, and also the signs on entry; is the proposed
alteration implemented or not.
Also please tell us why you have typed "Monkleigh Road" in your
heading, when the location from what your posted links, is
Rivercourt Road ?
#Post#: 116310--------------------------------------------------
Re: LBH&F PCN - 52M - failing to comply with a prohibition
on certain types of vehicle - Rivercourt Road
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: April 19, 2026, 1:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
>
> The location is very well known on this forum and is notorious
for being probably the worst and most dangerous restriction ever
introduced in London. So bad that the person who signed it off
should have been sacked long ago. It does seem from your posting
of alterations to the restriction that some person with more
sense has taken over to make it a bit better. I see Rivercourt
Road is now to be two way, and a mini-roundabout is to be
installed to allow people to turn round and, (presumably)
return to the A4. I assume the actual restriction signs will be
moved back to allow a motorist to turn round and return to the
A4 in reasonable safety. However, we have not seen any of the
signage associated with this change, and I don't expect Google
Street View is yet up-to-date, assuming the new arrangements are
now in force, but from your post, I suspect the original scheme
is still in place
> @Incandescent Have you a source for the further alterations
you mention?.
> . .
> Also please tell us why you have typed "Monkleigh Road" in
your heading, when the location from what your posted links, is
Rivercourt Road ?
> I've hopefully corrected the thread title.
>
--- End Quote ---
@JohnWick As Incandescent says, this is well-known here. Have a
look at these threads
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/rivercourt-road-the-tmo/msg80972/#msg80972
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/hammersmith-and-fulham-code-52m-failing-to-comply-with-a-prohibition-on-certain-/
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/52m-failing-to-comply-with-a-prohibition-on-certain-types-of-vehicle-rmv-riverco/
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/rivercourt-road-pcn-x2/
The last has links to other threads which are relevant.
Do you drive the A4 eastbound often? An important factor is the
adequacy of the advance warning signs before the turn, and
whether there have been any changes since last summer..
There was in May2025 talk of new signage - here
HTML https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/a4-and-rivercourt-road-low-traffic-neighbourhood
Our member, @Bustagate has also produced a useful set of notes -
HTML https://www.busgates.uk/locations/rivercourt-road
AFAIK, no case has yet reached London Tribunals, with H&F
folding, often at the very last moment. It's as if they are
afraid of an adverse tribunak decision.
Please post up all sides of the PCN, (redact only yr name &
address - leave all else in)
Before making any representations, post a draft here for
constructive comment.
Open yr reps with the PCNs being out of time, as that would
trump all other considerations.
#Post#: 116347--------------------------------------------------
Re: LBH&F PCN - 52M - failing to comply with a prohibition
on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles - Rivercourt R
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 19, 2026, 1:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I only became aware of proposed alterations to Rivercourt Road
in this thread, when the OP posted a council map of proposed
changes.
It is clear that access off the A4 is to still continue, despite
reverting Rivercourt Road to be two way. HOwever the council no
doubt didn't want to upset the residents and also there is a
need for access for emergency vehicles. If the installation is
done well, a motorist turning in without the necessary
permissions should be able to turn round and return to the A4
without passing restriction signs which need to be moved beyond
the turning circle.
#Post#: 116352--------------------------------------------------
Re: LBH&F PCN - 52M - failing to comply with a prohibition
on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles - Rivercourt R
DIR By: JohnWick
Date: April 19, 2026, 2:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi both
Here's an updated link for the image of the PCNs:
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/qvhNRtS
Apologies for prior Imgur link.
Thank you very much for all the advice & context of this
particular road.
I'll obtain photos of the road/signage tomorrow and will try to
confirm if the implementation has changed.
My one comment on this is the implementation/signage may well
have changed since the contravention, given it was months ago. I
can't recall at all seeing any signage - as illustrated by those
GSV links, they're not exactly obvious.
Apologies for the error on the thread title too - I'd used my
prior post as an example and hadn't changed the road name in
error. Thanks to John for correcting that.
I'll obtain the pictures of the road as a next step.
Thanks again.
#Post#: 116533--------------------------------------------------
Re: LBH&F PCN - 52M - failing to comply with a prohibition
on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles - Rivercourt R
DIR By: JohnWick
Date: April 21, 2026, 5:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Here's a couple of photos and videos showing the approach to
Rivercourt Road, plus the road itself:
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/zGXqUWY
I can confirm there's no turning point, and it's currently
impossible to return back onto the A4.
The 'advanced warning' signage is tiny and easily missed. As
shown on the GSV images earlier, it's really easy for it to be
obscured entirely by other traffic. The signage on the entrance
to the road itself is seen too late for it to be of any
effectiveness.
I can't speak to whether the signage has changed since the
incident occurred, given it was so many months ago. The angle of
the signage does appear to have changed compared to the GSV
images but impossible to say when.
It seems there's multiple angles of defence here, how should I
best go about this?
Thanks very much for any help and advice once again.
#Post#: 116542--------------------------------------------------
Re: LBH&F PCN - 52M - failing to comply with a prohibition
on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles - Rivercourt R
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 21, 2026, 6:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OK, so looking at your photos and videos, it's clear that the
proposed new layout is not yet implemented, and the signs are
the same useless ones that are easily missed.
So your reps should concentrate on inadequate signage of the
restriction, and in addition, point out that H & F had a duty
under Regulation 6 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders
(Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 to consult with
other highway authorities, before implementing the traffic
order, but failed to do so.
#Post#: 116957--------------------------------------------------
Re: LBH&F PCN - 52M - failing to comply with a prohibition
on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles - Rivercourt R
DIR By: JohnWick
Date: April 25, 2026, 5:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks very much. Here's my draft on rejecting the PCNs on the
following grounds:
"1. Procedural Impropriety: PCNs Served Out of Time
The alleged contraventions occurred in November 2025. However,
these PCNs were not served until late March 2026 - a delay of
over four months.
While I understand this was a hire vehicle, I have confirmed
with the rental company that they processed the Transfer of
Liability and provided my details to the Council on 21/11/2025.
Under the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act
2003, once the Council receives the hirer's details, they are
required to serve a new PCN within a reasonable period
(generally 28 days). A delay of nearly five months is excessive,
violates the Council's duty to act with reasonable speed, and
constitutes a procedural impropriety. As such, the PCNs should
be cancelled immediately as they are served "out of time."
2. Inadequate Signage and Failure of Advance Warning
The signage at the junction of the A4 and Rivercourt Road is
wholly inadequate and fails the test of "reasonable clarity"
required by the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions
(TSRGD).
Approach from A4: The advance warning signs on the A4 are small,
poorly positioned, and frequently obscured by high-volume
traffic on this 40mph dual carriageway. A motorist focused on
safe lane positioning cannot reasonably be expected to see,
read, and comprehend these signs.
Point of No Return: The restriction signs at the entrance to
Rivercourt Road itself are positioned such that they only become
visible after a driver has already committed to the turn.
Because Rivercourt Road is narrow and lacks a safe turning point
(the proposed mini-roundabout and two-way layout are not yet
implemented), a driver is forced to pass the signs once they
have seen them. Attempting to reverse back onto the busy A4
would be a dangerous and illegal manoeuvre.
3. Failure to Consult (Statutory Breach)
I further contend that the Traffic Management Order (TMO)
underpinning this restriction may be invalid. Under Regulation 6
of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England
and Wales) Regulations 1996, the Council has a statutory duty to
consult with other highway authorities (in this case, Transport
for London, as the authority for the A4) before implementing
such an order. There is strong evidence to suggest that the
Council failed to adequately consult or coordinate with TfL
regarding the impact of this scheme on the A4 trunk road.
4. Request for Continuous Contravention Treatment
Should the Council reject the points above, I request that the
two PCNs be treated as a continuous contravention. Both charges
were incurred within a 24-hour period before I was notified of
the first alleged offence. It is a well-established principle at
the London Tribunals that a motorist should not be penalised
multiple times for a single "error of understanding" before they
have had the opportunity to rectify their behaviour.
---
Given the extreme delay in service and the notorious inadequacy
of the signage at this location, which has led to many similar
cases being cancelled or folded by the Council at the Tribunal
stage, I request that these PCNs be cancelled forthwith."
Do you think I should include a copy of the email/confirmation
from the rental company regarding the date they transferred
liability (21/11/2025), or should I wait for the Council to
provide their evidence pack if they reject this?
Otherwise, any amendments suggested? Thank you very much for
your help here.
#Post#: 116964--------------------------------------------------
Re: LBH&F PCN - 52M - failing to comply with a prohibition
on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles - Rivercourt R
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: April 25, 2026, 5:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Looks good to me. They should fold on the delay in serving the
PCN. This does look like they are trying it on, knowing most
people just cough-up when they get the PCN
#Post#: 117158--------------------------------------------------
Re: LBH&F PCN - 52M - failing to comply with a prohibition
on certain types of vehicle (m) motor vehicles - Rivercourt R
DIR By: JohnWick
Date: April 27, 2026, 3:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Great, thank you. Confirming I've submitted representations on
both PCNs. I'll report back here once I have an update.
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