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       #Post#: 3207--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
   DIR By: Hodor51
       Date: August 14, 2023, 4:12 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
       >
       > [quote]Not what I'm saying. When issuing the PCN, surely there
       should be a picture of the sign which states its a event day
       alongside the picture of the sign that says parking restrictions
       are in force on event days as part of the evidence?
       --- End Quote ---
       Except you are saying this is what they would have to do,
       because the event day signs are at all the entrances to the
       applicable zone yet the location of the contravention is
       somewhere within the zone so which sign was passed is unknown.
       Indeed, there is actually no legal requirement for any photos at
       all. So if you claim the sign didn't show it was an event day,
       it would be up to you to demonstrate this.  Remember, the
       criminal standard of proof is not followed, it is the civil test
       of "on the balance of probabilities".
       [/quote]
       Ok understood, unfortunately proving this would now be
       impossible. The only evidence in possession would be photos of
       the immediate vicinity.
       Once the notice to owner has been reviewed, if advice on next
       steps could be provided that would be very much appreciated. A
       further appeal will be made.
       #Post#: 3332--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: August 15, 2023, 5:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       As long as representations are received by the council this
       week, the discount should be reoffered. If there are photos of
       the signs that you would have passed and those photos show the
       signs were there a few days before, then in the absence of
       anything to suggest otherwise most adjudicators would make a
       finding of fact that the signs were there to be seen when you
       drove past (and in all honesty this is probably the case).
       You could ask for photos in the representations, or you could
       just make a plea for discretion.
       I can't see any faults in the Notice to Owner but wait for
       others to comment (but don't wait past the discount deadline).
       #Post#: 3783--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
   DIR By: Hodor51
       Date: August 24, 2023, 4:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
       >
       > As long as representations are received by the council this
       week, the discount should be reoffered. If there are photos of
       the signs that you would have passed and those photos show the
       signs were there a few days before, then in the absence of
       anything to suggest otherwise most adjudicators would make a
       finding of fact that the signs were there to be seen when you
       drove past (and in all honesty this is probably the case).
       >
       > You could ask for photos in the representations, or you could
       just make a plea for discretion.
       >
       > I can't see any faults in the Notice to Owner but wait for
       others to comment (but don't wait past the discount deadline).
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Ok thank you. Challenge made with request for evidence again.
       #Post#: 6749--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
   DIR By: Hodor51
       Date: October 5, 2023, 8:18 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Afternoon,
       I've finally received notification (dated 26th September,
       received by mail today) that my representations have been
       rejected and I now have 28 days from the date of the letter to
       pay the fine of £130.
       I also received two pictures (look like they're both of the same
       sign) of signs in Oakfield Road (place of alleged contravention)
       and information about my right to appeal and a notice of appeal
       form.
       Links to letter below:
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dNN8kN0jhq4xcRzzrU9d8hk5Zg5JTRwM/view?usp=drivesdk
  HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dYxZTGi7PNqMWaxRpHAZwTHA_pDWWM9T/view?usp=drivesdk
       A few questions, probably because I'm curious to know more than
       anything:
       1) Do councils have a time limit to respond to these appeals,
       akin to the time limits MOPs receive to respond to these
       letters?
       2) Any reason why this wasn't sent in an email as these did with
       my last appeal rejection?
       3) A lot of the wording in the letter is cut off, I suppose,
       like last time, this wont have any effect on appeals etc
       4) I've been told to pay £130 rather than the original £65. Is
       there a reason for this or could it be down the appeal against
       the first rejection being outside of the normal 14 day window.
       Thanks in advance
       #Post#: 6806--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: October 5, 2023, 5:46 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Well if they've not reoffered the discount there's no point in
       paying now, you might as well appeal. The time limit for the
       council to respond to your representations is 56 days, they're
       well within that.
       The rejection was probably sent by post because there is no
       clear law on whether a notice of rejection sent by email is
       legally served, at least absent prior agreement, so it's what
       virtually all authorities do by default.
       It might be that the discount was not reoffered because you
       didn't make both the first and second representation within 14
       days.
       In the circumstances I'd suggest you go onto
  HTML https://londontribunals.org.uk/
       and register an appeal with "I
       rely on my formal representations" and you want and see what
       turns up in the evidence pack. We know they have the right
       photos to prove their case, but whether they'll put them in
       front of the adjudicator is another matter.
       #Post#: 6890--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
   DIR By: Hodor51
       Date: October 6, 2023, 12:38 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks for your response on this matter.
       The first representation was made within 14 days but I think I
       was outside the 14 days for the 2nd (although I don't think that
       was abundantly clear on correspondence they sent, not that it
       matters).
       Is there any advice you can give on the next appeal, or am I
       effectively duplicating what I've already said in my previous
       representations?
       Thanks again.
       #Post#: 6947--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: October 7, 2023, 9:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       As I said earlier, just appeal with "I rely on my formal
       representations" and let's see what they respond with. You can
       always add more detailed grounds later on, once you've seen the
       council's evidence pack.
       #Post#: 7258--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
   DIR By: Hodor51
       Date: October 12, 2023, 3:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi,
       When putting through it asks about a representative and also my
       appeal hearing and as to whether or not I want to take part in
       the hearing or if I want the appeal considered in my absence? Is
       there any recommendation on what I should do in this instance?
       #Post#: 7392--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: October 13, 2023, 6:39 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Always ask for a hearing, there's literally zero advantage in
       going for a postal decision.
       #Post#: 7679--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Haringey Council - PCN 12(r) - thread from pepipoo
   DIR By: Hodor51
       Date: October 18, 2023, 3:39 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi there,
       Just as an update I've made the appeal via the link provided,
       chosen to represent myself and chosen to attend any hearing. I
       believe I shall hear within the next 7 days. (Unsure if this is
       calendar or working).
       Will update further once I hear back
       Thanks again
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