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DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
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#Post#: 11511--------------------------------------------------
Yellow box ticket
DIR By: ss201
Date: November 29, 2023, 4:14 am
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I got a ticket for being in a yellow box junction in Redbridge
near Goodmayes station. I saw the traffic light turn green so I
moved into the junction knowing that the car in front of me was
going to move soon. I don't know how to share the video here but
I checked it and I was in the junction for about 4 seconds, is
there anything I can do? Part of the letter is attached if
anyone wants to have a look at the video. Thanks in advance.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 11512--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box ticket
DIR By: mickR
Date: November 29, 2023, 4:36 am
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please post up the complete pcn back and front to look for
errors.
looking at the video you appear to be stationary for around 3
seconds which may be an argument for de minimis.
there was also space in front of you (if you had crept forward
slowly you wouldn't have stopped at all).
#Post#: 11515--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box ticket
DIR By: ss201
Date: November 29, 2023, 5:30 am
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Thanks for the reply, three seconds is even less than the four
seconds I thought! Here are the rest of the PCN.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 11519--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box ticket
DIR By: MrChips
Date: November 29, 2023, 6:25 am
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We've had previous success on Goodmayes Road I believe by
arguing the PCN location is too vague. Redbridge has seen fit
to paint no fewer than five different box junctions along it and
the PCN doesn't give the recipient any clue as to which it is
referring to.
HTML http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=149002&st=20
I'd suggesting drafting representations arguing a combination of
this and mickR's point.
#Post#: 11687--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box ticket
DIR By: ss201
Date: December 1, 2023, 4:34 am
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Thanks, do I pay the fine and complete the representation in the
online form in case the fine goes up? Sorry I have not done this
before so want to make sure that the fine doesn't go up when the
14 day period passes.
#Post#: 11688--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box ticket
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: December 1, 2023, 4:46 am
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Paying normally closes the case, so do not pay if you want to
challenge.
Most Councils re-offer the discount if reps made within the
discount period.
#Post#: 11689--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box ticket
DIR By: ss201
Date: December 1, 2023, 5:15 am
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Thanks, that's what I'll do.
#Post#: 11694--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box ticket
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: December 1, 2023, 6:22 am
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--- Quote from: ss201 link ---
>
> Thanks, that's what I'll do.
>
--- End Quote ---
So post your draft reps here for comment first.
#Post#: 11696--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box ticket
DIR By: ss201
Date: December 1, 2023, 6:44 am
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Here is the draft. I have copied the second point from the other
thread but I feel more can be written in the first point,
perhaps mentioning that I saw green light in front can
invalidate the point that I don't know which junction it is!
Dear London Borough of Redbridge,
I am putting forward two reasons for the PCN to be cancelled:
1. It is seen from the video that I was stationary for three
seconds, so it should fall under the principle of De Minimis Non
Curat Lex
2. A PCN is required to state the grounds on which the authority
believes a charge is payable, and this has been held to require
not only the nature of the alleged contravention but also the
location where the allegation is said to have taken place. The
location of the contravention simply states "Goodmayes Road",
but there are at least five box junctions on Goodmayes Road and
it is not possible to determine from the PCN where exactly the
contravention is said to have occurred.
It follows that the PCN is invalid and must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
#Post#: 13281--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yellow box ticket
DIR By: ss201
Date: January 4, 2024, 3:06 am
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--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> [quote author=ss201 link=topic=1044.msg11689#msg11689
date=1701429304]
> Thanks, that's what I'll do.
>
--- End Quote ---
So post your draft reps here for comment first.
[/quote]
Here is the rejection letter
[attachment deleted by admin]
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