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#Post#: 114773--------------------------------------------------
Sainsbury car park overstay - NtK from Euro Car Parks
DIR By: Innocentman
Date: March 29, 2026, 2:03 pm
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As per the subject, I've had a NtK from ECP for overstaying in a
Sainsbury car park. The time limit is 2 hours for customers,
the driver was a customer and successfully scanned their till
receipt on leaving the store - the alleged contravention is
overstaying the 2 hour limit, not not being a customer.
I shall be appealing to ECP on the following grounds.
- The overstay was under 10 minutes. I thought that as members
of the BPA they are supposed to give a 10 minute grace period.
- I believe that the NtK is invalid [
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/eurocarparks-sainsburys-overstay/<br
/>].
I will be looking at that issue myself, but it'll take me a bit
of time to read and digest the relevant paragraph(s) from PoFA,
so if anybody here knows it inside out and can tell straight
away from looking at the NtK if and how it is non-compliant that
would be great to know.
This is not my first encounter with ECP, so I have asked the
DVLA if there have been any recent requests for my details as
keeper, just in case ECP didn't request them and are using ones
they've got on file, but the DVLA may not respond in time.
Also, have I missed the 14-day discount window? The NtK was
"issued" on 14/3, which was a Saturday, so isn't it deemed not
to have been delivered to me until Wed 18th? But my bad for not
paying attention and getting my appeal in earlier.
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/FYGq98CL/msg114773-PCN-front.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/FYGq98CL
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/RWG8Mypf/msg114773-PCN-rear.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/RWG8Mypf
#Post#: 114795--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sainsbury car park overstay - NtK from Euro Car Parks
DIR By: InterCity125
Date: March 30, 2026, 1:37 am
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The NtK is not PoFA compliant but don't expect ECP to accept
that.
Did you validate your parking within the store?
#Post#: 114844--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sainsbury car park overstay - NtK from Euro Car Parks
DIR By: ixxy
Date: March 30, 2026, 12:30 pm
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Did you enter your reg correctly when you scanned your receipt?
If so they have short changed you on the grace period. My guess
though is either you entered your reg incorrectly or it didnt
register properly.
Have you approached Sainsburys?
Do you still have your receipt, or other proof of shopping there
on that day? If so appeal as the keeper saying the driver was a
genuine shopper who registered and provide the proof. That will
hopefully get it cancelled or at least reduced to £20. My advice
is dont bother with the alleged POFA compliance stuff, Euro will
reject and as we've seen on quite a few POPLA appeals in the
last few days so will POPLA.
Keep it simple and to the point, don't try to get clever, it
doesn't work.
#Post#: 114981--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sainsbury car park overstay - NtK from Euro Car Parks
DIR By: Innocentman
Date: March 31, 2026, 4:33 pm
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--- Quote from: InterCity125 link ---
>
> The NtK is not PoFA compliant but don't expect ECP to accept
that.
>
--- End Quote ---
How can they not accept (as in successfully ignore, and
successfully transfer liability to the keeper) that their NtK
does not validly support transfer of liability to the keeper?
--- Quote from: InterCity125 link ---
>
> Did you validate your parking within the store?
>
--- End Quote ---
The driver did - if they had not the overstay would have been
1:39:59s, not 9:59.
#Post#: 114983--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sainsbury car park overstay - NtK from Euro Car Parks
DIR By: Innocentman
Date: March 31, 2026, 4:56 pm
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--- Quote from: ixxy link ---
>
> Did you enter your reg correctly when you scanned your
receipt?
>
--- End Quote ---
The driver did.
--- Quote from: ixxy link ---
>
> If so they have short changed you on the grace period. My
guess though is either you entered your reg incorrectly or it
didnt register properly.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ignore what I said above - for some reason I was assuming they
were pursuing a less-than-10-minute overstay, but looking at the
NtK again they don't mention an overstay period, just a total
stay. IHNI why I assumed that. :-[
--- Quote from: ixxy link ---
>
> Have you approached Sainsburys?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes.
--- Quote from: ixxy link ---
>
> Do you still have your receipt, or other proof of shopping
there on that day?
>
--- End Quote ---
The driver does.
--- Quote from: ixxy link ---
>
> If so appeal as the keeper saying the driver was a genuine
shopper who registered and provide the proof. That will
hopefully get it cancelled or at least reduced to £20.
>
--- End Quote ---
Why £20?
--- Quote from: ixxy link ---
>
> My advice is dont bother with the alleged POFA compliance
stuff, Euro will reject and as we've seen on quite a few POPLA
appeals in the last few days so will POPLA.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, yes, but...
--- Quote from: ixxy link ---
>
> Keep it simple and to the point, don't try to get clever, it
doesn't work.
>
--- End Quote ---
Please don't take this as having a go at you - it really isn't,
but I don't agree that expecting a parking management company to
abide by the law is "being clever".
Right now I'd be minded to fight this all the way, unless it
risked literally thousands of pounds, on the grounds that
legally they simply do not have the right to transfer liability
to the keeper, Euro Car Parks and POPLA "intellectual
malnourishment" be damned.
So even if I lead with a < 10 minute overstay and a non-BPA
compliant lack of a grace period, should I not also mention PoFA
compliance at this stage in case I want to rely on it later?
#Post#: 114991--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sainsbury car park overstay - NtK from Euro Car Parks
DIR By: InterCity125
Date: April 1, 2026, 1:39 am
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It could be that the computer that works this stuff out simply
recognised that the total stay exceeded 2 hours 10 mins even if
that was by a few seconds.
The operator is supposed to make manual checks before requesting
keeper details from DVLA but we have seen time and time again
that these checks are not carried out.
In the first instance I'd suggest a single point appeal to the
operator (made as the keeper) pointing out that the driver both
registered and left the site in 2hrs 10 mins. You could add
weight to the appeal by pointing out that 'time on site' doesn't
demonstrate the exact 'period of parking' in circumstances where
timings are so tight.
#Post#: 114992--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sainsbury car park overstay - NtK from Euro Car Parks
DIR By: ixxy
Date: April 1, 2026, 1:40 am
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I've given you my advice as have others. In my opinion it is far
from conclusive that the argument that wording the NTK
invalidates the ability to hold the keeper liable. It is
unfortunate that some individuals like to portray it as a clear
breach of the act when in reality they have no basis for aking
that assertion. Whilst it's fun to be rude about the private
parking companies and call POPLA assessors capabilities into
question, this is what they do for a living. They have access to
in house and external legally trained people. It also easy to
buy into the conspiracy theory all PPCs are dodgy as he'll, some
are, particularly the smaller ones, but the bigger ones are
professional run and work with clients like supermarkets, the
NHS, universities etc. that have proper contract teams and legal
bound tender processes. Its not the wild west people like to
portray.
#Post#: 114999--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sainsbury car park overstay - NtK from Euro Car Parks
DIR By: InterCity125
Date: April 1, 2026, 3:05 am
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I agree with the OP on this.
When PoFA was introduced, the then Government lorded it as 'a
modern Act of Parliament' which was 'worded in legally tight
manner' and 'designed to be totally understandable by
individuals with no legal background' (admittedly my
paraphrasing).
If you examine the Act then you will see that this is the case.
The wording of 9(2) demonstrates that exact point; The notice
must-
The wording of 9(2)(e) further reinforces that point if it were
needed; The notice must state blah blah blah
If a notice 'must state' something and it subsequently fails to
'state' it then one quite reasonably imagines that this is a
very good 'basis' for making such an assertion?
Otherwise, what purpose do the requirements 9(2)(a-i) perform if
one could just introduce subjectivity (to such an extent as was
needed) in order to ignore the precise wording of the Act itself
and therefore always arrive at a position where one deems a NtK
as being compliant?
The Act was deliberately designed and worded as to deliberately
AVOID such subjectivity - that is the very purpose of tight
wording and total objectivity.
If you want ever wanted to find an Act which exhibited the exact
opposite then you should examine the Animals Act (1971).
I cut my teeth on the Animals Act and I can tell you that it was
arduous.
Examine this history of interpretations of the Animals Act over
the years - it is mind boggling.
Read it here;
HTML https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/2003/16.html
This is the EXACT reason why modern Acts were worded in such a
strict manner.
#Post#: 115390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sainsbury car park overstay - NtK from Euro Car Parks
DIR By: Innocentman
Date: April 8, 2026, 6:27 pm
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--- Quote from: Innocentman link ---
>
>
> [quote author=ixxy link=topic=10388.msg114844#msg114844
date=1774891840]
> Have you approached Sainsburys?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes.
[/quote]
This was Sainsbury's reply:
Thanks for getting in touch. I'm sorry you are unhappy with the
parking charge notice you received when visiting our Uxbridge
store. I can understand your disappointment, especially as you
are a regular customer.
We aim to provide suitable car parking facilities for all our
customers and try to ensure everyone can access an appropriate
space. We display signs throughout the car park to notify
customers of the conditions for parking and we work closely with
Euro Car Parks, who monitor the car park on our behalf, and
parking charge notices are issued by them when necessary.
The process to appeal this would be to contact Euro Car Parks,
details can be found on the parking notice.
Thanks again for taking the time to get in touch. We look
forward to seeing you in store very soon.
#Post#: 115394--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sainsbury car park overstay - NtK from Euro Car Parks
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: April 8, 2026, 6:51 pm
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What government claims a piece of legislation to be, and what
judges subsequently interpret it to be, often misalign.
--- Quote ---
> the bigger ones are professional run and work with clients
like supermarkets, the NHS, universities etc. that have proper
contract teams and legal bound tender processes. Its not the
wild west people like to portray.
--- End Quote ---
Some of those 'bigger ones' are made up of the same ex-clampers
whose operating practices were so poor that the government had
to step in and criminalise it. The government's private parking
bill wasn't brought in because the sector is working.
But lets not get too philosophical. If you fight this case all
the way, there's a very fair chance they'll discontinue before
it reaches a court. We can't guarantee it, but past performance
suggests it's fairly likely.
Also, that's a brush off from the supermarket, keep on at them.
If it were me, and you're confident the driver did enter the
correct reg, I'd be leading with the grace period in any appeals
- by their own PCN it's less than 10 minutes. Regardless of
whether they should, we know that POPLA have hitherto not shared
the view that ECP's notices are not PoFA compliant, but it would
be harder for them to assert that an overstay of less than 10
minutes was an overstay of more than 10 minutes.
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