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#Post#: 114646--------------------------------------------------
advice needed on out of date calibration certificate?
DIR By: dynamyq
Date: March 27, 2026, 12:58 pm
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Hello,
I have received a NIP for an alleged speeding fine from surrey
police for a camera at location S79, A23 Horley Road, South
Earlswood, at 01.35 hours on 24th Oct 2025.
The original NIP was received within time.
There were some letters backwards and forwards with the police
but eventually i received a Conditional Offer of fixed penalty
(3 points and £100 fine).
However looking at the Certificate of calibration, I believe
that it could be argued that the certificate is out of date.
Allow me to explain.
It effectively has three relevant dates:
Radar Factory Calibration Date 16/11/2023
Initial Site Calibration Start Date 20/12/2023
Annual Inspection Date 25/11/2024
And a stated “Valid Until*” date of: 24/11/2025
and then some wording
* Site Calibration Valid until up to one year from Site
Calibration/ Calibration Inspection Date, or three years from
Radar Factory Calibration Date, whichever is sooner.
The key words here I believe are "whichever is sooner"
Therefore of the 3 possible options, the soonest date is Site
Calibration Valid until up to one year from Site Calibration
16/11/2023 therefore the certificate woud be valid until
15/11/2024 and NOT 24/11/25.
Am I correct in my understanding and reading?
are these grounds to challenge?
or should i accept the offer?
Also, would the Police need to provide a certificate of annual
inspection if it is mentioned on the calibration certificate?
calibration certificate here:
HTML https://ibb.co/sJcdn3Vp
Advice gratefully welcome.
#Post#: 114651--------------------------------------------------
Re: advice needed on out of date calibration certificate?
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: March 27, 2026, 1:28 pm
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--- Quote from: dynamyq link ---
>
> Am I correct in my understanding and reading?
--- End Quote ---
Irrelevant. See below
--- Quote ---
> are these grounds to challenge?
--- End Quote ---
Short answer - no. Longer answer, not unless they can show that
there was a real likelihood that a machine that is presumed to
be working correctly wasn't. The calibration being slightly out
of date will not do that, and will at best support more
persuasive evidence (if you had any).
--- Quote ---
> or should i accept the offer?
--- End Quote ---
Absent any "smoking gun" you were saving for a dramatic finale,
or other semblance of a viable defence, thr fixed penalty is
likely to be the most favourable disposal.
--- Quote ---
> Also, would the Police need to provide a certificate of annual
inspection if it is mentioned on the calibration certificate?
--- End Quote ---
As far as securing a conviction is concerned, no.
#Post#: 114653--------------------------------------------------
Re: advice needed on out of date calibration certificate?
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: March 27, 2026, 1:38 pm
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You can contact the police and point this out to them and ask
them to review the action against you. They may discontinue it,
but I doubt it.
If not, your choices will be to either decline (or ignore) any
out of court offers they may make (of a course or fixed
penalty) and plead not guilty in court.
Whatever it says on the certificate, your task in court will be
to convince the Magistrates that the device cannot be relied
upon to show that you exceeded the speed limit. An expired
calibration certificate by itself will not do that. Mechanical
devices are assumed to be working correctly unless the contrary
can be shown and they do not suddenly become unreliable the day
after their calibration certificate expires.
Whatever you decide to do, you must respond to the request for
driver’s details within the 28 days allowed.
#Post#: 114658--------------------------------------------------
Re: advice needed on out of date calibration certificate?
DIR By: clay
Date: March 27, 2026, 2:09 pm
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--- Quote from: dynamyq link ---
>
> ...Therefore of the 3 possible options...
>
--- End Quote ---
It's not 3 options. It's 2 options, which are:
1) the calibration at the factory (lasting 3 years)
2) the calibration on site (lasting 1 year, which is why after
the initial one they gave it an annual update)
You were caught within 1 year of the last on site calibration,
and within 3 years of the last factory calibration, so it's not
out-of-date. Not that an out-date-date calibration is likely to
matter anyway.
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> Whatever you decide to do, you must respond to the request for
driver’s details within the 28 days allowed.
>
--- End Quote ---
OP already has a COFP, so I think it's safe to say they replied
to the request for driver's details. The timeline to respond to
the COFP may be a bit more pressing
#Post#: 114668--------------------------------------------------
Re: advice needed on out of date calibration certificate?
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: March 27, 2026, 3:41 pm
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--- Quote ---
> OP already has a COFP, so I think it's safe to say they
replied to the request for driver's details.
--- End Quote ---
Sorry, missed that. Thanks for the correction.
#Post#: 114753--------------------------------------------------
Re: advice needed on out of date calibration certificate?
DIR By: dynamyq
Date: March 29, 2026, 8:57 am
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--- Quote from: clay link ---
>
> [quote author=dynamyq link=topic=10378.msg114646#msg114646
date=1774634283]
> ...Therefore of the 3 possible options...
>
--- End Quote ---
It's not 3 options. It's 2 options, which are:
1) the calibration at the factory (lasting 3 years)
2) the calibration on site (lasting 1 year, which is why after
the initial one they gave it an annual update)
You were caught within 1 year of the last on site calibration,
and within 3 years of the last factory calibration, so it's not
out-of-date. Not that an out-date-date calibration is likely to
matter anyway.
--- Quote from: NewJudge link ---
>
> Whatever you decide to do, you must respond to the request for
driver’s details within the 28 days allowed.
>
--- End Quote ---
OP already has a COFP, so I think it's safe to say they replied
to the request for driver's details. The timeline to respond to
the COFP may be a bit more pressing
[/quote]
Surely there are 3 possible options:
Valid until up to one year from Site Calibration
Valid until up to one year from Calibration Inspection Date
Valid until up to three years from Radar Factory Calibration
Date
whichever is sooner
The soonest of these is one year from Initial Site Calibration
therefore it was valid until 19/12/2023
Surely the whole point of a certificate is to prove the device
is still working and has been checked. Therefore if the
certificate is out of date why doesn't that effectively mean
that the device cannot be relied upon in a lawful/legal sense
Isn't this a technicality that can be relied upon in court?
#Post#: 114754--------------------------------------------------
Re: advice needed on out of date calibration certificate?
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: March 29, 2026, 9:16 am
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Regardless (or irregardless if you want to be American) of how
many times you ask the question, the answer won’t change. Is it
fatal to the prosecution case? No. Might the police drop it
because it’s too hard? Yes.
You want advice. You have it. Don’t argue with it.
#Post#: 114836--------------------------------------------------
Re: advice needed on out of date calibration certificate?
DIR By: dynamyq
Date: March 30, 2026, 11:16 am
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i asked a follow up question and was seeking clarification.
i wasn't arguing with the advice but trying to understand it.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
#Post#: 114840--------------------------------------------------
Re: advice needed on out of date calibration certificate?
DIR By: 666
Date: March 30, 2026, 11:40 am
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--- Quote from: dynamyq link ---
>
> i asked a follow up question and was seeking clarification.
> i wasn't arguing with the advice but trying to understand it.
> :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>
--- End Quote ---
Think of the calibration certificate as akin to an MOT
certificate. The latter proves that the car was safe on the day
it was tested, but not the day after or 364 days later.
As explained above, the onus on you would be to prove (on the
balance of probabilities) that the camera was defective. You
could do that at any time, even the day after the issue of the
certificate.
In both cases, the expiry date simply means that the next test
is due.
#Post#: 114841--------------------------------------------------
Re: advice needed on out of date calibration certificate?
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: March 30, 2026, 11:45 am
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--- Quote ---
> Isn't this a technicality that can be relied upon in court?
--- End Quote ---
Well for bit of clarification, you cannot simply demand the
police discontinue any action or (if they won’t) simply turn up
in court and say “expired calibration certificate, dismiss the
charge”. It doesn’t work like that.
As I said, you must convince the court that the device cannot be
relied upon. The starting point when the court deliberates on
this (whether it has a current calibration certificate or not)
is that it is reliable. An expired calibration certificate might
well help you prove that it isn’t, but it will not be conclusive
by itself.
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