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#Post#: 15035--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: February 5, 2024, 3:38 am
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Post the email or else transcribe the relevant part word for
word regarding the latest date by which you must respond.
At present we have you saying 'i have got 7 days from the date
of this correspondence' and NP who, probably through experience,
thinks this is '7 days beginning on the date'.
As explained, these are not the same.
#Post#: 15036--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: dk007
Date: February 5, 2024, 4:06 am
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Hi, looks like today is the last day, this is what the email
says:
" you have seven days from the date of this correspondence to
provide comments on the evidence uploaded by NCP limited-
Gatwick Airport"
And it is an 211 page pdf document with personal information at
number of places, please advise how to hide the personal
information in such a document and then to upload.
#Post#: 15037--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: Nosy Parker
Date: February 5, 2024, 4:14 am
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I am sorry you sat on this for the entire 7 days before seeking
advice. Unfortunately, I have to go out to my day job now.
Hopefully someone else will advise further. All I can do is
urge you to use the wording I've already provided.
#Post#: 15040--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: February 5, 2024, 4:28 am
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As a general rule, you should use the 'comments' stage, to point
out any holes in the operator's evidence, anything within it
that reinforces your case, and anything in it that weakens
theirs. If you've made a point in your appeal that they have
failed to address, point this out. If they have made a claim
that is not backed up by their evidence pack, point this out,
etc. etc.
It would be useful to see the document but, like Nosy Parker, I
also have a day job and will have little time to pour over such
a large document in any great detail. We potentially don't need
to see all 211 pages, but as we don't know what pages contain
what, it's hard to advise on what would be useful to see.
#Post#: 15044--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: February 5, 2024, 4:45 am
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7 days from is......7 days from! Ends on 6th.
As regards 211 pages, look for anything which:
1.Gives NCP the right to operate on the land - it's hard to
believe that everyone is so mad that even large corporations
don't know the status of their land. Look for anything which
relates to bylaws applying.
2. Explains the delay of 5 months between event and serving of
NTK, surely there's something in the evidence to explain or
which refers to this.
In essence, your defence as registered keeper is that:
In the event that a driver is liable to a landowner or their
authorised agent for a charge or however else this might be
described pursuant to a breach of contract, then the law allows
the creditor to seek relief by holding the keeper liable in the
driver's stead subject to 'all applicable conditions under this
Schedule[Schedule 4 to PoFA]' being met by them.
POPLA is not a judicial proceeding and therefore cannot require
the appellant to take any particular action but may simply give
their view as to whether in their opinion the creditor would be
entitled to relief under Schedule 4 which relates solely to the
right to hold the keeper liable.
This must not be confused with the creditor's rights to pursue
the driver which are legally distinct.
Such relief is only available if all applicable conditions in
the Schedule have been met by the creditor: no burden in this
matter falls to the keeper.
..list the creditor's failings..which are objective.
#Post#: 15047--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: Nosy Parker
Date: February 5, 2024, 4:58 am
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I agree it should be that way. But we are in the wacko world of
POPLA. I don’t advise waiting till tomorrow to find out whether
POPLA has come to its senses on this
#Post#: 15048--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: February 5, 2024, 5:25 am
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But we do need the OP to give the 211 pages as good a review as
they can.
#Post#: 15056--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: b789
Date: February 5, 2024, 6:16 am
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OP, you say that you received the operators response “pack” by
email. I’m assuming this is as a PDF attachment.
If this is the case, you should duplicate the PDF file and then,
using a PDF editor, redact any bits that we do not need to see
such as your name, address, the VRN and the PCN number. You can
then upload the redacted document to DropBox, making sure it is
publicly accessible.
You can set up a free DropBox account if you don’t already have
one. Without doing all the legwork for you, there are probably
other free hosting websites that let you publish PDF documents.
Why have you left it so late to respond to this?
#Post#: 15065--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: dk007
Date: February 5, 2024, 7:47 am
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Hi, I have tried to split the pdf, page 1 and page 3 are
attached, page 2 has lots of personal information and just a
context to page 3 which i am attaching so left page 2. then it
has got all the pcn, appeals etc which is already here. Part 3
is the one with all the images etc. I have removed many of the
last pages as they had the same information as in the last page
of part 3 pdf. it was increasing the size of the pdf to be very
high and did not look relevant.
I thought of raising it earlier but other things got me busy and
got delayed.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 15067--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: b789
Date: February 5, 2024, 8:06 am
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Unless there's anything else in the response pack that we
haven't seen, so far, there is no rebuttal of the fact that you
appealed as the keeper. Nowhere, in what you've shown us, is
there a reference to why they are trying to hold you liable as
the driver.
The fact that the driver was at the location for 8-9 minutes
matters not. They could be there for a day and still not be
liable for the charge if they are not identified. Do they
mention anywhere in any of the paperwork that they are
"assuming" you must be the driver because you are also the
keeper?
As long as you have not identified as the driver, they cannot
hold you liable as the keeper because this alleged contravention
took place on land covered by bylaws. They have not responded or
rebutted the fact that you are the keeper.
You also have the fact that the signage is rubbish. Their photos
of the signage prove that. Have they included any photos of the
vehicle at the drop off zone?
Subject to any other opinions, you only need to highlight the
fact that they have not answered how they can hold you liable as
the keeper. In your response, you should "lead" the assessor to
the facts about their inability to hold you liable as the keeper
and that no inference that you were the driver can be made.
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