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#Post#: 13634--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: January 12, 2024, 5:59 am
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The fact they were prepared to settle up for £15 suggests they
know they've no case.
Yes, you'll need to get your POPLA appeal in ASAP - have you
been drafting one on the basis of the lack of PoFA compliance?
#Post#: 13636--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: dk007
Date: January 12, 2024, 6:06 am
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Hi, Thanks, Please could you direct me to the link to draft this
appeal or if there is a draft appeal to use, i can do so.
#Post#: 13640--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: January 12, 2024, 6:25 am
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I'm not sure that there's a template "ready to go" - if you
search on PePiPoo and the MoneySavingExpert private parking
forums for Gatwick cases there should be some that have gone to
POPLA that will have examples you can use to help you. The
points you should be making will be along the following key
lines:
- That you are appealing as the registered keeper, and that NCP
do not know the identity of the driver, and that you have no
liability as the keeper because:
- Parking at Gatwick Airport, including the drop off zones, is
subject to statutory control, namely byelways, and is therefore
not 'Relevant Land' as defined by Schedule 4 of the Protection
of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). As a result of this, they cannot
use the provisions of PoFA to hold you liable as the registered
keeper
- Even if it were relevant land, which is denied, NCP's notice
does not conform to the requirements of a Notice to Keeper as
prescribed by paragraph 9 of the Act, as it was not given within
the relevant period of 14 days of the parking incident, as
required by 9(4)
- Signage - Nosy Parker may be more familiar with the issues
with the signage at Gatwick, but it is known to be shoddy
The PoFA points should be enough to get POPLA on board. If you
can draft something up ASAP and show us, ideally today.
#Post#: 13641--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: dk007
Date: January 12, 2024, 7:19 am
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This is what i have found on mse website:
I am appealing as keeper. I am not obliged to identify the
driver and I decline to do so.
1. The operator is unable to transfer liability to me as keeper
pursuant to Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012
(“POFA”) because the drop off zones at Gatwick are not ‘relevant
land’ as defined in POFA.
2. Even if (which is not the case) the land in question is
relevant land the operator’s notice was delivered after the
expiry of the ‘relevant period’ as defined in POFA paragraph
9(5).
3 In addition the operator’s notice does not conform to the
requirements set out in POFA paragraphs 9(2)(f).
Furthermore, as keeper I am entitled to all the defences
available to the driver including (without limitation) the
following:
4. The parking charge is not notified until after the contract
is entered into and under the principles set out by the Court of
Appeal in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking, does not form part of
the contract between the driver and the operator;
5 The signage is not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice.
#Post#: 13648--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 12, 2024, 9:06 am
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If POPLA allow up to 33 days from the date of the operator's
letter then this is Sat. 13th. (letter dated 11 Dec.)
If not, then you're likely to be too late.
Get what you've got submitted ASP.
But POPLA isn't a judicial proceeding, the only one which counts
is civil court.
Not only are you not required to name the driver, you're under
no legal duty to respond to their drivel. Just because they
initiate correspondence doesn't mean it has any legal
significance, and theirs doesn't because the only relevant
statute, Sch. 4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, specifically
excludes such a claim from its scope!
As others know, I don't agree with the template because
implicitly it subscribes to a legally false premise e.g. of
course their notice doesn't comply with PoFA, it never sought
to; and it makes no demands on the keeper etc.
But we don't have time to debate this - go with what you've got
and hope you're not too late.
#Post#: 13652--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: dk007
Date: January 12, 2024, 9:52 am
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Sure, thanks, I have appealed it now.
#Post#: 13693--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: Nosy Parker
Date: January 13, 2024, 2:17 am
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You can add the following at a later stage when you get the
opportunity to comment on NCP's case - if they even bother to
oppose the appeal:
Attention is drawn to the fact that POPLA's Complaints Team has
twice issued apologies for assessors wrongly applying keeper
liability for parking on airport land and confirming that, as
airport land is not 'relevant land' as defined in POFA, there
can be no keeper liability for parking on airport land. The
most recent apology relates to POPLA case 4822223007 and was
issued on 7 December 2023.
#Post#: 15029--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: dk007
Date: February 5, 2024, 2:46 am
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Hello experts, I recieved an email 30th Jan from Popla that NCP
has now uploaded its evidence and I have got 7 days from the
date of this correspondence to provide any comments. Should I
add any comments?
#Post#: 15032--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: Nosy Parker
Date: February 5, 2024, 3:23 am
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--- Quote from: Nosy Parker link ---
>
>
> You can add the following at a later stage when you get the
opportunity to comment on NCP's case - if they even bother to
oppose the appeal:
>
> Attention is drawn to the fact that POPLA's Complaints Team
has twice issued apologies for assessors wrongly applying keeper
liability for parking on airport land and confirming that, as
airport land is not 'relevant land' as defined in POFA, there
can be no keeper liability for parking on airport land. The
most recent apology relates to POPLA case 4822223007 and was
issued on 7 December 2023.
>
--- End Quote ---
Did you mean to ask us whether you should comment on the
operator’s evidence without showing that evidence to us, or are
you about to post it for us to review?
If the latter, please obscure any information that could
identify you (POPLA code, PCN number, vehicle number, name,
address). Use an external hosting site such as www.imgur.com and
post the link.
If the former, then obviously we can’t advise beyond repeating
the statement I previously advised you to include in your
comments.
#Post#: 15033--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for Gatwick airport drop off zone
DIR By: Nosy Parker
Date: February 5, 2024, 3:28 am
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PS As you received the POPLA email on 30 January, that date is
day 1 of your 7 days to respond and today is the last day.
So you must act today if you want to comment on the operator’s
evidence. If you say nothing else, at least say what I advised
you twice to say.
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