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#Post#: 118307--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: tincombe
Date: May 11, 2026, 4:18 am
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Who is the registered keeper and are their DVLA details current?
I ask because the next notice with an opportunity to make reps
would go to the registered keeper.
OK, they've rejected your initial reps based upon the sound and
basic point regarding the delineation of parking places. IMO,
next step is to carry on with a more detailed argument.
As I see the situation on GSV, the vehicle passed a 'permit
holders only' traffic sign AND THEN passed a Pay and Display
Zone gateway entrance sign. This is a permitted variant of
Controlled Zone BUT ONLY when this applies:
Where on‑street parking is of the same type throughout the
zone, whether or not permit parking is also provided, and where
the operational time of the parking places is the same as the
times shown on the entry sign, the legend on the sign may be one
of the following:
a) ....“Meter ZONE” (where parking meters are used)
(b) “Pay and Display ZONE” (on‑street ticket machines)
IMO, the driver was acting responsibly by looking for the next
traffic sign ahead of them because they'd passed an enormous
sign telling them that they were entering a Pay and Display
zone.
But the council's case is that she should have looked behind her
and exited the P&D zone to look for signs outside the zone! IMO,
if the council want to continue a permit bay into a P&D zone
then, even assuming this is permitted, their LATOR duty to
convey restrictions adequately requires them to place this sign
at the point where the permit bay ends and the P&D restriction
starts, para. 13.21 of the Traffic Signs Manual* refers:
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
*- although the TSM is not law as such, most adjudicators would
examine a council's reasons for not following this guidance
especially, as here, it is confused by placing a P&D zone sign.
Wait for others.
#Post#: 118686--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: zaijjj
Date: May 14, 2026, 9:53 am
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Thank you for your reply!
The registered keeper is my mum and her DVLA details are
correct. I live with her so it's easy for me to keep track of it
all too.
Honestly the placement of the signs is what bothers me the most,
as she is very diligent usually when parking in Brent.
Thank you for the information you have already provided me. She
has until Monday 18th to still be able to pay the discounted
rate. Would anyone recommend paying it or still hold out for the
NTO and make a formal challenge? In your experiences, could she
win this?
I'd appreciate any further advice that can be given to us. Thank
you all again!
#Post#: 118943--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: zaijjj
Date: May 17, 2026, 5:13 am
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Just wanted to make a final plea for any advice please? The
deadline for the discounted rate is tomorrow and I don't want to
miss out on it if I don't really have a case to stand on.
Thank you all in advance! :)
#Post#: 118947--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: tincombe
Date: May 17, 2026, 5:32 am
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The discount is often re-offered even after unsuccessful formal
reps.
IMO, the combination of P&D Parking Zone, failure to adopt TSM
recommendations by placing a traffic sign at the change of
restriction and her compliance with what is IMO the only
rational traffic sign means she would have a good chance at
adjudication.
IMO, it is nonsense for the council to rely only on the
visibility of a transverse marking which in practice is
invisible if a car parks on it, as here, especially when the
first bay within the P&D zone is a PERMIT bay.
#Post#: 118985--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: zaijjj
Date: May 17, 2026, 2:52 pm
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Thank you for your response, I will advise her to not pay it
tomorrow. What are the next steps? Does she now wait for the
Notice To Owner and we make further representations?
#Post#: 118997--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: tincombe
Date: May 17, 2026, 4:12 pm
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Wait for the NTO.
#Post#: 121047--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: zaijjj
Date: June 7, 2026, 5:48 pm
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Hi all,
My mum has received the Notice to Owner and I have uploaded it
to Google Drive along with the other documents.
Please advise me on our next steps. And thank you all again!
Notice to Owner document
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q5lsaebUWooGFwwg2Nejj5p3e59nKvPT/view?usp=drivesdk
#Post#: 121390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: zaijjj
Date: June 10, 2026, 2:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
Sorry I was just wondering if anyone had any advice regarding
next steps? Thank you in advance!
#Post#: 121404--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: June 10, 2026, 5:50 pm
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You must respond to the Notice to Owner, (pay or submit a formal
representation) or it's game over. HOwever, I'll leave it to
'tincombe' to comment on what to do either way.
#Post#: 121426--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: tincombe
Date: June 11, 2026, 4:22 am
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My take for formal reps:
I was parked as can be seen in the council's photos. I arrived
at the location by passing a very clear Controlled Parking Zone
sign which stated Pay and Display zone and proceeded to park
immediately beyond this sign in a marked parking bay. I then
looked beyond my car, saw a pay and display traffic sign and
immediately paid for my stay. On my return I found a PCN which
alleged that I was parked in a 'permit holders' only bay.
As I now know, this bay in fact commences prior to the Pay and
Display(P&D) zone entry sign and is marked by its own traffic
sign which is dwarfed by the adjacent P&D entry sign. The bay
then extends into the P&D zone, but the council expects drivers
to disregard these indicators and instead notice that the bay
terminates prior to the pay and display traffic sign which I saw
ahead and which lies clearly within a driver's vision. The
junction between my bay and the pay and display bay is not
signed as recommended in the Traffic Signs Manual i.e. with a
traffic sign at the junction of the bays carrying two traffic
signs indicating clearly the change of restrictions whose
presence would remove ambiguity and ensure that drivers would
then be alerted to the change in restrictions. Instead, the
council relies upon road markings which are invisible from the
footway when, as in this case, a car is parked so as to
overshadow their presence.
Drivers know to look for traffic signs and do not carry a
Sherlock Holmes-like magnifying glass to enable them to examine
every inch of carriageway.
In my opinion the contravention did not occur because, having
regard to all the on-site indicators, the council has failed to
convey the restriction clearly.
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