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#Post#: 114114--------------------------------------------------
Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space or
zone..
DIR By: zaijjj
Date: March 23, 2026, 10:27 am
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Hi all :)
My mum had paid to park in what she thought was a pay and
display zone, but saw this PCN on her car window when she exited
the shops.
She then noticed that the double white line that separates the
pay & display parking zone and the resident permit holders only
parking zone was being obscured by the grey car you will see in
the pictures in front of her. I got her to try and take a good
picture of the car obscuring the line but her camera skills
aren't the greatest!
Is there any way to appeal this? We have the receipt for her
parking and it was a genuine mistake! I would appreciate any
help you could give me.. £80 is an extortionate amount of money
for this mistake!
Please let me know if you need any more information, or if any
links aren't working. Thank you in advance!
Google Drive link with all pictures:
HTML https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1HCPuGb-CCRnxNvb-EgGPChc8C4XUVAL7?usp=sharing
Link for map view -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/qJtXitQW6HuGpuZZ8<br
/>her car was parked where the black 7 seater is.
#Post#: 114137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 23, 2026, 1:11 pm
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Your photos come up too small, and are unzoomable. Can you
please adjust them so we can look at a larger image.
Looking on GSV, we see this all the time. The recommended
signing of bays like this is to put the two signs for the two
bays side-by-side on a single pole placed at the dividing
(dashed) line separating the two bays. Each sign should then
have an arrow to indicate applicability. Appeals at London
Tribunal have won in the past on this, but you have to risk the
full PCN penalty to find out.
#Post#: 114142--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: zaijjj
Date: March 23, 2026, 1:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for pointing this out. I have amended the pictures and
they should be full images now.
Have you also seen cases like this that weren't successful at
tribunal as well? Risking having to pay the full £160 is such a
daunting feeling.
#Post#: 114149--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: March 23, 2026, 2:36 pm
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The problem we have is that whilst the London Tribunals
statutory register is on-line, it is not open for general
searches, the items one can search on are limited. Have a look
here: -
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals
The basic fact is that in a case like yours, the chances of
success cannot really be judged; certainly it's not what I call
a "slam-dunk" win. If you want to consider the matter, have a
read of what the Earl of Montrose wrote: -
He either fears his fate too much,
Or his deserts are small,
That fears to put it to the touch
To win or lose it all.
#Post#: 114156--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: tincombe
Date: March 23, 2026, 3:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Your mother* isn't at adjudication, she's yet to make risk-free
informal reps which guarantee that the discount would be
re-offered.
What I see as being the situation... Don't use it verbatim!
She parked; she saw the traffic sign ahead(as can be seen in the
CEO's photos); she went to it and followed its directions, see
payment receipt.She did not return to the car(parking rights
being virtual).
She missed the end of bay marking because another car was parked
on it as can be seen in the CEO's photo NB. not the one taken
from the carriageway as my mother who is ** years old is not in
the habit of wandering into the middle of the road to look at
markings, but instead finds it safer to stay on the footway from
which vantage point the markings were invisible because the grey
car was wholly above them(if it had parked any closer to the
kerb it would have been on the footway). Had the council
followed best practice, including that set out in Chapter 3 of
the Traffic Signs Manual, and placed a post with 2 signs on a
single column indicating the point at which the restrictions
changed then this issue would not have arisen.
I got her to try and take a good picture of the car obscuring
the line but her camera skills aren't the greatest! Then I
suggest you do it! You need the lines from the vantage point of
the footway, in particular the 12-18 inches measured from the
kerb.
#Post#: 114238--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: zaijjj
Date: March 24, 2026, 11:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you both for your prompt replies!
I wasn’t able to take a picture as my mum was on her own &
called me whilst I was at work to tell me about the PCN. Luckily
she was able to take a picture of the grey car before they
pulled off!
Do you recommend that I go back to take a picture of the lines
from the footpath? Or is there any point now the car has gone?
A friend has helped me draft an appeal, could you please tell me
if there’s anything I should add/remove? Again I’m so very
appreciative of and advice!
“Dear Sir/Madam,
I write to make formal representations against the above Penalty
Charge Notice.
On the date in question, the driver parked in what was
reasonably believed to be a valid pay-and-display bay and
immediately purchased a ticket, evidence of which is enclosed.
This clearly demonstrates a genuine intention to comply with the
applicable parking restrictions.
After returning to the vehicle, it became apparent that part of
the bay may have been designated for resident permit holders
only. However, this was not clear at the time of parking due to
inadequate and obscured bay demarcation.
As shown in the enclosed photographs:
- The dividing line between the pay-and-display bay and the
resident permit bay was obscured by a neighbouring vehicle which
had parked over the boundary markings.
- From the driver’s position on the footway, the bay division
was not visible, and there were no clear visual cues to indicate
a change in restriction at that exact point.
- The nearest visible signage corresponded to pay-and-display
parking, which the driver relied upon in good faith.
Furthermore, the layout of signage at this location does not
appear to clearly indicate the precise point at which the
restriction changes. Best practice, as set out in Chapter 3 of
the Traffic Signs Manual, advises that where adjacent bays
operate under different restrictions, signage should clearly
mark the transition point. This does not appear to have been
done here, which contributes to ambiguity for motorists.
Given:
- The valid parking payment made,
- The obscured and unclear bay markings,
- And the lack of clear indication of the restriction change
point,
Given that a valid payment was made and the bay markings were
unclear, I believe it would be fair and reasonable to cancel
this PCN.”
#Post#: 114252--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: tincombe
Date: March 24, 2026, 1:18 pm
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From the driver’s position on the footway, the bay division was
not visible, and there were no clear visual cues to indicate a
change in restriction at that exact point.
So prove it by getting photos. If you need to, replicate the
grey car's position by parking your own there and then taking
photos.
Evidence, not just assertion IMO.
#Post#: 114308--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: zaijjj
Date: March 25, 2026, 2:04 am
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Thank you, I will go and take some pictures today.
Also I don’t know if this is relevant, but as you can see
with this GSV link, my mum was parked near this “pay and
display” zone sign. Can I use this in her appeal as well?
It’s very misleading as it appears before the separation
line.
GSV
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/FNj4UxMU7mXzDUYe9
#Post#: 114314--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: tincombe
Date: March 25, 2026, 4:01 am
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Good spot. Take photos of this as well, and in context pl, not
just close-up.
#Post#: 118294--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN - contravention code 16 - Parked in permit space
or zone..
DIR By: zaijjj
Date: May 10, 2026, 7:33 pm
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Hi everyone,
I submitted the informal representations using the draft I'd
sent, along with the pictures I uploaded - including some close
ups - but they were rejected :(
I have screenshot the email and uploaded this onto the drive as
well so you can take a look.
Would you all recommend I pay it? Or do you think it's worth
challenging this again? Please let me know your thoughts and
opinions on it!
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