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#Post#: 2--------------------------------------------------
THE WAR YEARS 1960-1990
DIR By: Diable Fire
Date: January 26, 2011, 10:16 pm
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PART ONE COVERS THE GREAT KNICKERBOCKER AND BLEECKER STREET FIRE
OF 1977, THE FIRE HAPPENED JUST DAYS AFTER THE GREAT NEW YORK
CITY BLACKOUT AND IN A LOT OF WAYS THIS FIRE WAS LOST IN THE
AFTERMATH OF THE BLACK OUT.
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THE WAR YEARS PART 1--BROOKLYN BOX 10 10 767 1977
The war years of the fire service, just what were those years.
In some areas of the country those years have not stopped or
they are starting all over again. Just like in Camden, NJ with
one third of the cities firefighters laid off. In other areas of
the country like LA, New York, St. Louis, Philly, they were the
years between 1960 and the mid 1980's where department regularly
fought fires that burned to such a magnitude the departments
were over whelmed.
Cities like New York saw there firefighters battling major fire,
two alarms or greater, on a daily basics, sometime the FDNY
would have so many fires going that companies could not get any
help. Cities like St Louis would not have the sheer number of
fires that New York, Philly, and Los Angeles would have but they
ran many more fires than normal.
What made the war years so bad, arson, greed, lack of equipment
and manpower, all the things were seeing today? You have
politicians that are more interested in getting their name and
their picture on the news and in the newspaper instead of
working to find a solution for what is ailing our country. It is
plain and simple what is wrong and it is greed. Are we as a
country, as firefighters, police officers, EMS personnel, and
fire buffs heading into another "War Years", yes I think so.
Recently I paid a visit to one of Clark County Fire Department's
station and the members were leery about visitors, although the
member I talked with would not come out and say it I got the
feeling that he really did not want me around. It is sad to say
but I actually felt like an intruder in the station.
Recently I posted a tread called 1976 FIRE STORM IN ST LOUIS
about a fire in the downtown area in 1976 that had the potential
to burn through the entire city. One member of the City of St
Louis Fire Department made the comment that people did not
realize just how close we came to loosing the city. Hell during
those years the City of New York Firefighters were battling
fires just as big and just as bad on a daily basics. So were the
members from Philly, Los Angeles, and many other areas of the
Country.
This thread is about the war years. The fires that were fought
by the Greatest Generation of American Firefighters, these guys
fought fires without the aid of today's bunker gear and half the
times they did not wear pacs like we do today, they did not have
the hoods, or the cameras, things like that. They faced fires
with shear guts and indignity
Men like Lt Richard Hamilton (FDNY Rescue 2), Denise Smith, the
men of Engine Co 82 and Ladder Co 31 of the South Bronx, the men
of the Brooklyn Companies, the men in Los Angeles during the
Watts Riots, all of these guys made our country safe from those
that sought to tear it apart because they were not happy with
their lives or because they were not happy with their landlords,
or the landlords that wanted to tear the building down who would
hire thugs to torch the place.
Each one of these fires were fires that touched people in many
ways, some lost their homes, for some it was a way to rebel
against the machine and the "Man", and for some these fire cost
them a great deal. I remember reading in "Report From Engine Co
82" about guys the would hire kids to light off the buildings
and then throw a match in and lock the door trapping the kids
along with the residents of the buildings. In one of the forums
that I am in I read where it was not unusual for the Companies
to pull up to a building and residents would have their stuff
out front knowing that the building would be getting torched
that day, and that the members would know it too due to the
sheer number of False Alarms called into that area on that day.
The first in this thread will the "Great Knickerbocker and
Bleecker Street Fire of 1977"
JULY 18, 1977:
This fire was started by three juveniles who sheer goal was to
get their pictures in the paper, and if my research is correct
one of them was sentenced to 25 years in prison for this
particular fire. It is also noteworthy that nobody was killed in
this fire, which in itself is a miracle since this fire could
have easily killed many.
I have read a few accounts of the fire and from all that I can
gather 23 buildings were destroyed in the fire, 50 people
including firefighters were injured in the fire, and 7 blocks of
Bushwick were destroyed or severely damaged in the fire.
The following is a quote from City Noise-- Bushwick 77: Burning
out the Heart of Bushwick
"It was like many other fires that occurred during the firestorm
years of Bushwick, except for the old tank of Kerosene in the
basement. When it exploded, a fireball exploded out of the
building. It took about 3 to 5 hours for 55 units of
firefighters from Manhattan, Queens, and Brooklyn to put out the
fire. The fire hydrants were no use to the firefighters because
they were low on water."
There are many comments on the fire from those that were there
as firefighters, below is one that appeared in City Noise
Bushwick '77: The All Hands Fire Article first published on
Tuesday, May 1st, 2007
"TFSCharlie: 29th Mar 2009 - 01:39 GMT
When L-124 pulled up, the heat was intense; Chauffeur went back
into rig to reposition it. Windows were melting & he burned his
hands on the steering wheel. Buildings 50 to 90 feet away from
original fire building spontaneously combusted & burst into
flames due to the heat waves. I got OTJ in November 1977 & heard
about this fire from many senior members since I was assigned to
a company nearby."
"mike: 13th Jun 2009 - 22:50 GMT
I was involved in this fire I lived at 248 Bleecker St.It was
the saddest day of my life.We lost everything,all I had left
were the clothes on my back and many of my friends ended up
losing there homes that day.It was over 100 degrees and no water
in the hydrants that knitting mill was abandoned for years and
once that went up it was all over.It was a rough time for
everyone.It was the neighborhood that time forgot."
With this said it is time to get to the pictures:
CREDIT FOR ALL PICTURES GO TO THE ORIGINAL PHOTOGRAPHER, AND FOR
THOSE OF YOU THAT WERE THERE ARE KNOW ABOUT THIS FIRE PLEASE
CHIME IN AND IF I HAVE SOMETHING WRONG PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
I HAVE MORE PICTURES FROM THE FIRE AND THEY CAN BE FOUND AT MY
PHOTO ALBUM PLEASE CHECK IT OUT.
HTML http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_luVyvvtvjo4/TT8jp-W3KFI/AAAAAAAAAiY/4NNncZNl02U/s1600/map_1.jpg
HTML http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_luVyvvtvjo4/TT8kGwHxdlI/AAAAAAAAAjA/JfOAlqt-xMc/s1600/bleeker_4.jpg
HTML http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_luVyvvtvjo4/TT8kGzbZEUI/AAAAAAAAAi4/8ZKJ1FQmiW8/s1600/bleeker_3.jpg
HTML http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_luVyvvtvjo4/TT8kGDuyzeI/AAAAAAAAAiw/DnCIFOOtp48/s1600/bleeker_2.jpg
HTML http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_luVyvvtvjo4/TT8kF9HRoyI/AAAAAAAAAio/DLPoCw3ca3A/s1600/bleeker_1.jpg
#Post#: 3--------------------------------------------------
Re: THE WAR YEARS 1960-1990
DIR By: Diable Fire
Date: January 26, 2011, 10:24 pm
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here are a few more of the GREAT KNICKERBOCKER AND BLEECKER
STREET FIRE OF 1977
HTML http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_luVyvvtvjo4/TT8k0CNyKsI/AAAAAAAAAjo/Ebwm42krLvo/s1600/19862.jpg
HTML http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_luVyvvtvjo4/TT8kz02QKMI/AAAAAAAAAjg/JXHsABDNoKw/s1600/KICKERBOCKER%2BFIRE%2B1977%2B%25289%2529.jpg
HTML http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_luVyvvtvjo4/TT8kz6xOKWI/AAAAAAAAAjY/Im69XmcYUQk/s1600/43798.jpg
HTML http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_luVyvvtvjo4/TT8kzkjXnMI/AAAAAAAAAjQ/joaS5QtcYrs/s1600/19861.jpg
#Post#: 4--------------------------------------------------
Re: THE WAR YEARS 1960-1990
DIR By: Diable Fire
Date: January 26, 2011, 10:29 pm
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AND A FEW MORE FROM THAT FIRE
HTML http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_luVyvvtvjo4/TT8kzZj1iPI/AAAAAAAAAjI/H8cxLUFYrzE/s1600/bleeker_5.jpg
HTML http://images109.fotki.com/v128/photos/9/1737549/9433799/43809-vi.jpg
HTML http://images52.fotki.com/v304/photos/9/1737549/9433799/KICKERBOCKERFIRE19775-vi.jpg
HTML http://images107.fotki.com/v67/photos/9/1737549/9433799/st1820900633001294078939_thumb-vi.jpg
#Post#: 5--------------------------------------------------
Re: THE WAR YEARS 1960-1990
DIR By: Diable Fire
Date: January 26, 2011, 10:34 pm
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Part Two of the War Years
The Watts Riot of August 11 through August 15, 1965.
No discussion of the War Years of the 60’s to 90’s is complete
without talking about the riots of the sixties. One of the worse
riots to date is the August 1965. The riot was sparked off by
two California Highway Patrol officers that pulled over and
arrested a 21 year old African American for suspected drunk
driving. The officers gave the young man a field sobriety test
and it was determined that he was drunk at the time.
Up until approximately 7:15 the evening that the riot started it
had been a peaceful event with the suspected drunken driver
Marquette Frye being cooperative with the officers. At this time
the crowd had grown to approximately 250 to 300. According to
records of the arrest and detention of Frye’s it was when his
mother showed up and scolded him for drinking and driving that
things went down hill.
“Mrs. Frye approached Marquette and scolded him for drinking.
Marquette, who until then had been peaceful and cooperative,
pushed her away and moved toward the crowd, cursing and shouting
at the officers that they would have to kill him to take him to
jail. The patrolmen pursued Marquette and he resisted.”
“The watching crowd became hostile, and one of the patrolmen
radioed for more help. Within minutes, three more highway
patrolmen arrived. Minikus and his partner were now struggling
with both Frye brothers. Mrs. Frye, now belligerent, jumped on
the back of one of the officers and ripped his shirt. In an
attempt to subdue Marquette, one officer swung at his shoulder
with a night stick, missed, and struck him on the forehead,
inflicting a minor cut. By 7:23 p.m., all three of the Fryes
were under arrest, and other California Highway Patrolmen and,
for the first time, Los Angeles police officers had arrived in
response to the call for help.” (this was taken from one of the
many sources on the riots and is just one version of what
happened)
The officers on the scene had to call for assistance from other
officers and by the time they left the scene at 7:25 pm it was
reported that there were over a 1000 onlookers and hostility and
anger was evident on both sides,
The riots went on for 6 days and before it was all said and done
34 people had been killed, this included one City of Los Angeles
Firefighter, 1 Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Officer, and one
Police Officer from the Long Beach Area. There were 1032
reported injuries in the riot including 90 Los Angeles police
officers, 136 firemen, 10 national guardsmen, 23 persons from
other governmental agencies, and 773 civilians.
During the height of the riot Los Angeles City Firefighters were
shot at while trying to extinguish the fires, and in many
instances were forced away from the fires for safety reasons.
Los Angeles City Fire Department Firefighter Warren E. Tilson
was killed in the line of duty during the riot when a wall at
the Shop Rite Market, 120th and Central, fell on him, another
firefighter Robert L. Laxague survived. Both men were assigned
to Engine Co 61 at the time of the riot.
“Beginning August 12 and for several days the fire fighters of
Los Angeles fought hundreds of major fires under riot
conditions. Rioters set the fires by hurling "Molotov
cocktails," glass bottles of gasoline with rags stuffed in the
necks which serve as wicks.
Rioters sought to "protect" the fires they started. While
responding and while working our men were pelted with rocks,
bricks and bottles. On many occasions heavy gunfire forced fire
fighters to discontinue response or to retreat from fires.” (THE
FIREFIGHTER LAFIRE.COM)
Many fires that had been stopped during this six day period of
time were reignited by looters and rioters, many fires were left
untouched due to extreme hazard to firefighters. Many times the
National Guard would exchange gunfire with snipers trying to
protect the firefighters.
In all over 200 buildings were destroyed due to fire and
looters, many hundreds were damaged by both looters and fires.
Day-by-day breakdown (Courtesy of Wikipedia, the free
encyclopedia)
Wednesday, August 11
• A white California highway patrolman, Lee Minikus, arrested
Marquette Frye at around 7 p.m. after Frye failed his sobriety
tests.
• By 7:23 all three Fryes—Marquette, his brother Ronald, and
their mother—had been arrested as a crowd of a couple hundred
gathered around the scene.
• The police withdrew by 7:40, leaving behind an angered, tense
crowd.
• For the last 4 hours of the night, the mob stoned cars and
threatened police in the area.
Thursday, August 12
• Black leaders such as preachers, teachers, and businessmen
tried to restore order in the community after a night of
rampage, telling people to stay indoors.
• Around 10 a.m. community workers and officers called residents
in the area, telling them to remain in their houses.
• At 2 p.m. a community meeting was held, at which members
representing different neighborhood groups discussed solutions
to the problem at hand; the meeting failed.
• At 5 p.m. Police Chief William Parker, after learning the
meeting had failed, notified the California National Guard in
Sacramento to be on alert.
Friday, August 13
• At 8 a.m. rioting grew.
Saturday, August 14
• By 1 a.m. there were around 100 fire brigades in the areas,
trying to put out fires started by rioters.
• Over 3,000 national guardsmen had joined the police by this
time in trying to maintain order on the streets.
• By midnight there were around 13,900 guardsmen in the area.
• A curfew was set at 8 p.m. to keep people inside their houses
– allowing the government officials to gain more control of the
situation.
Sunday, August 15
• The riots died down, leaving around $40 million in property
damage
• Churches, community groups, and government agencies gave out
aid.
• The vandalism ceased and the curfew was lifted by Tuesday,
August 17
• By the following Sunday, a week later, less than 300 national
guardsmen remained to help out with the aftermath.
HTML http://www.lafire.co...arrenTilson.htm
HTML http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/uploads/monthly_01_2011/post-8576-0-53305900-1296016708.jpg
HTML http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/uploads/monthly_01_2011/post-8576-0-09130500-1296016714.jpg
#Post#: 6--------------------------------------------------
Re: THE WAR YEARS 1960-1990
DIR By: Diable Fire
Date: January 26, 2011, 10:38 pm
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FOUR MORE FROM THE WATTS RIOTS
HTML http://images56.fotki.com/v127/photos/9/1737549/9519903/safeway-vi.jpg
HTML http://images54.fotki.com/v1616/photos/9/1737549/9519903/103rdstreet_watts_riot_1965-vi.jpg
HTML http://images58.fotki.com/v85/photos/9/1737549/9519903/BE045492-vi.jpg
#Post#: 7--------------------------------------------------
Re: THE WAR YEARS 1960-1990
DIR By: Diable Fire
Date: January 26, 2011, 10:44 pm
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A FEW MORE FROM THE RIOTS
HTML http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/uploads/monthly_01_2011/post-8576-0-96008300-1296016995.jpg
HTML http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/uploads/monthly_01_2011/post-8576-0-56141500-1296017019.jpg
HTML http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/uploads/monthly_01_2011/post-8576-0-25157800-1296017056.jpg
HTML http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/uploads/monthly_01_2011/post-8576-0-56877900-1296017081.jpg
#Post#: 8--------------------------------------------------
Re: THE WAR YEARS 1960-1990
DIR By: Diable Fire
Date: January 26, 2011, 10:48 pm
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THE LAST PICTURE OF THE WATTS RIOT. YOU CAN VIEW MORE OF THE
WATTS RIOT DEVASTATION AT
HTML http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/index.php?showtopic=17666&st=15
HTML http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/index.php?showtopic=17666&st=15
HTML http://www.firepics.net/groupboards/uploads/monthly_01_2011/post-8576-0-39970700-1296017264.jpg
#Post#: 9--------------------------------------------------
THE WAR YEARS----AUDIO OF THE WAR YEARS IN NEW YORK
DIR By: Diable Fire
Date: January 26, 2011, 11:04 pm
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HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSiGV9Z8lhE
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSiGV9Z8lhE
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RcX9gbOWRk
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RcX9gbOWRk
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj8DnhPxw8A
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj8DnhPxw8A
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwu0h1P2TiU
HTML http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwu0h1P2TiU
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