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#Post#: 865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
By: mamboitaliano Date: December 20, 2014, 4:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
haha woah, sorry Chercheur :P That icon totally threw me off.
I'm on my phone which doesn't help either, ;D
that Yu Yevon icon would look good on the back of a hoodie btw.
:D
#Post#: 866--------------------------------------------------
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
By: Pyreflies_of_MJ Date: December 20, 2014, 7:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=mamboitaliano link=topic=45.msg859#msg859
date=1419107539]
All we need from this book is an update from Kimahri "The Ronso
no longer respect Kimahri for being a Guardian and kicked him
out of their tribe because of his broken horn" and there's
plenty of time to drag Wakka's racism out of the grave with all
of this new Albhed lore! Seriously though, Yuna's regression is
absolutely disgusting, Lulu's makes her look like she has a
mental disorder, Rikku's is odd, and even Wakka's is kind of
sad. He was maturing at the end of X-2, calming down, finally
comfortable in his own shoes.. He seems to be none of that here.
I think Pyreflies hit the nail on the head when mentioning the
sense of FAMILY that's being ignored in this novel. Every time
you turn X on, a video of everyone solemnly sitting by a fire is
shown. Those characters, despite their own personal troubles,
were coming together and saving the world from a 1000 year
CURSE. They were oppressed, had no hope for their futures, and
the world as they thought they knew it was dissolving right
before their eyes. Yet here they are sitting by a fire, pushing
through fear and overcoming obstacles both personal and global
TOGETHER. X-2 showed all of them maturing, regaining hope,
growing confident in their futures. As corny as that game got
sometimes, the character development was absolutely
beautiful...And there's Tidus, progressing in X from foreigner
to friend, a voice of optimism in a world with little hope
(there's an NPC early in X, I can't remember where, who wondered
whether the next Calm would even last a year!)
I just feel like Nojima has completely forgotten all of this. He
wants to introduce a new enemy? Fine. Does Sin have something to
do with this new enemy? Also fine. Just pleaaasssee don't mess
with the character development! He's forgotten the growth of his
characters and reduced them to mere caricatures of their old
personalities. Lame.
[/quote][quote author=CrystalOfLies link=topic=45.msg860#msg860
date=1419109542]
That's true. 'Family' was one of the main themes of X. Seven
people, all different in personality, life goals, opinions and
futures; going against the entire world and the corrupt system
it's being held under just to bring peace to a land which might
not even last very long. Six of those people are all loosely
related to their past lives and try their best to support and
comfort their shaken summoner, knowing how much of a demented
hellhole Spira really was; a literal spiral of death.
The seventh person, Tidus, has no connections to any of these
people save for Auron. He came from a much more comforting world
and, thanks to the contrast, immediately noticed and questioned
Spira's traditions and cultures. He came from somewhere where he
could be genuinely happy, and Yuna and the others seeing this
gave them the strength to go on. If it weren't for his optimism,
Yuna might have given up hope too early. If it weren't for his
curiosity, Yuna might have never contemplated the
behind-the-scenes of Yevon's church. In fact, if he wasn't even
there, Sin might very well have killed them all at either
Operation Mi'ihen or Zanarkand Dome. So despite only knowing
these people recently, he was just as vital to the journey and
deserved a place in their circle. Their family, if you will.
Here comes the novella. People are already forgetting what he's
done for them and his friends are not welcoming to him. The very
position that brought him close to the gang (foreign and
out-of-touch) is now isolating him and making him doubt himself.
Alas, poor Tidus! I knew him, Nojima.
Once again: I don't hate the novella as much as I used to. I've
gone from wanting to burn the book in molten magma to just...
pitching it aside and taking it in jest. Just treating it like a
fanfiction that's moderately more interesting than average, you
know? [/quote]
Guys, YES. Here comes a rant. ;)
In the ending FMV when we see Tidus returning back to Besaid
with Yuna, it looked liked ALL of the island had come out of the
woodwork to see them. They knew who Tidus was (and if they
didn't they seemed curious), they knew what was up and they were
STOKED. It was such a positive atmosphere and it felt good to
see that Tidus was being reunited with his family. Yuna's
guardians and by extension - the people of Besaid, they were his
new family. If it were a feature film, I'd expect "We Are
Family" by Sister Sledge to start blasting while everybody hugs
it out.
But here comes the opening of the book and all that falls on its
ass. People act like they are not here for Tidus AT ALL, I'm
like damn. Seymour's crazy ass may as well have come out of the
ocean because Besaid is not giving any f*cks about Tidus and
it's a shame. Nobody even gave him a hug - chile, what? We know
damn well that Tidus would have gotten ALL the hugs.
Rikku, Lulu and Yuna were especially out of pocket, just what
the hell happened? Why is Yuna's b*tch ass all up the butts of
people in town, empathizing with some cult, paying no mind to
her man, who, let's not forget because Besaid sure did, just
came back from the f*cking dead. She's too nice, the book says,
riiight. You nailed when you said she's acting like she's got
brain damage. Girl was trippin' and so was the rest of the
island. Tidus is just like WTF, while people give him dirty
looks - really? If it weren't for him ya'll would be fish food
for Sin, but you're going to act real band new and pretend like
he's not a legendary guardian. Okay. You mean to tell me that
NOBODY knows who Tidus is or his significance, and if that was
the case, that NOBODY was going to school your asses on that
glaringly important fact? Okay, bish.
Yuna's apparently lost all the gumption and free will she gained
over the course of two games, and she can't even recognize when
BS is going down - and Besaid was most definitely on some BS.
She could have stepped up and made an announcement to everyone
about Tidus and what was going on, how a hero had returned and
how they should be thankful and welcoming, but she acted like a
straight coward and it is sad. She could have at least excused
herself, but no. I can't even respect her. She should have known
how insecure he felt, I want to SLAP her ass! He sure as f*ck
wouldn't treat her like that. You think he'd be signing
blitzballs and s*it when he's been without you, looking for you
for years? Girl.
You don't deserve Tidus anymore, ho, why don't you shack up with
one of those thirsty ass clowns from New Yevon. See you in
Bevelle, bish. >_>
Nobody made Tidus feel particularly welcome, or loved or a part
of the family. FAIL. It's not even remotely realistic and I've
seen some people argue that is but I'm like please. When
something major happens, people put their bulls*it aside and
take in the moment. No one was there to celebrate that moment
with Tidus, and he felt like sh*t as a result. Maybe the Aurochs
welcomed him, though. Okay, ya'll, good job, but nobody cared
about you guys in the game and nobody does now. They are such a
boring non-factor that I forgot they were mentioned at all.
Somehow, Tidus is getting more love from a Blitzball team than
from his girlfriend. Funny stuff.
And Rikku's acting like a diva. She knows damn well that Tidus
wants to see Yuna more than anything and that he's probably
feeling some kind of way from being ignored. Rikku can be
immature, but dude, she ain't dumb and she wasn't acting
understanding at all. It was like she couldn't read the
situation for what it was and then she got too much in her
feelings and had a tantrum. Girl, dang, way to be a brat. Bish,
why in hell would he feel like listening to you tell a story
when he probably wanted to hear that all from Yuna in the first
place? People done misplaced their brains all over the damn
place in this book. That girl is supposed to be the least
uptight and yet here she is, doing the most.
And Lulu, hell. We all know she's got a reputation for being low
key sassy, she'll insult your ass right quick. But she simmered
down a lot and became more warm. When the baby was on the way
she got extra maternal, but damn if her maternal instincts took
a seat when Tidus came out the ocean. And you'd think that since
she's such an important figure in Besaid, she could tell people
to back the f*ck off from Yuna, but no, she gives no f*cks
either and somehow characters I liked are being ultra unlikable.
She was actually supporting Yuna's BS and telling Tidus to back
off. SAY WHAT, HOE!? You guys f*cking renounced Yevon, and know
first hand how bad it can be. You washed your hands of that s*it
and know better than to cater to people who are blinded by
religion, but suddenly everyone's in a cult mindset once again.
IT'S A DAMN SHAME.
They were all trying WAY too hard and doing TOO much for people
who are not in the "fam"- can we say priorities, Yuna's were
twisted as hell. I can practically imagine Yuna being like "Oh,
I'll be right with ya' Tidus, let me just go suck this monk's
d*ck first." It is sickening, those people were not respecting
her or Tidus, but she felt the need to coddle them, so much for
a strong heroine. ::) There is no excuse for Yuna not talking
to Tidus immediately, let alone days after the fact. Besaid
Village is not that f*cking big, b*tch, it's got a population of
like 32 and people live in straw huts. Take a seat, it is not
that serious.
I read a fic once that was real cute. It was right after Tidus
returned and Yuna didn't want to let go of his hand for a long
time thereafter. Even as he was being introduced to others and
such. She was insecure about losing him again and clingy, it was
sweet. What is sweet about this book? Not a damn thing, as far
as I can see. Next.
And Wakka, pssh, I'm not even gonna' waste my breath on that
fool. He acts like he's been smokin' too much weed, doesn't know
what the f*ck is going on and is okay with that.
The thing is, it wouldn't even be such a thang if everyone was
actually in-character, it's like you guys say. The Farplane
could be pouring out zombies and Spira could be in the midst of
famine, genocide and rampant disease - but if they all just
stuck together and cared for one-another I'd stomach it. That's
the difference between a good story and a piece of sh*t. They
weren't supposed to just tap out on each other, I wanted to feel
something besides tension, sadness and awkward. And don't get
me started on the rehashing of old sh*t, lawd, Square couldn't
come up with an original story so they recycled the original one
+ extra contrived drama, just add milk.
The weight of the previous character development was shattered
and we're left with hollow characters with tattered connections.
It's lost its heart and its painfully evident with only a couple
chapters. I hope I'm not being too abrasive or explicit, lmao,
this stuff brings out my SASS. :D
#Post#: 867--------------------------------------------------
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
By: CrystalOfLies Date: December 21, 2014, 4:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
-claps- Pyreflies, you never cease to amaze me with your
speeches.
Let's look at this from Tidus' point of view some more. In X, he
and his friends took down a centuries-old false religion that
was masking the truth to defeating Sin. Throughout half of the
game, the maesters have declared them traitors, they sent Dark
Aeon assassins after them, pretty much told Yuna that her
father's sacrifice was useless and one particularly crazy
maester tried to kill, deceive and manipulate them multiple
times. They are hypocrites (use machina), self-aware (Mika stops
Seymour's sending because he is unsent too) and cowards (Mika
runs away to the Farplane, leaving Yevon in shambles).
Come X-2, with the rise of New Yevon (and yes, Tidus knows this
because Rikku told him, not Yuna. Yeah Yuna, how consistent is
your narration in that game since you are telling Tidus
everything that's happened!?). While not as evil as the original
Yevon, their scheme was to find spheres pertaining to Spira's
history and hide them deep underground, therefore pretty much
wiping out the knowledge of Spira's past. They were under the
belief that memories of the past were weaknesses and not part of
someone's... well, soul. And with the defeat of Trema, that
matter is resolved.
Here comes the return of Tidus, who sacrificed his life to both
defy Yevon and put an end to Spira's curse once and for all. Now
he sees that the Yevon lifestyle is slowly seeping back into
Spira, and nobody is attempting to question or even joke around
with the fact that it was one of the causes of Spira's
near-downfall. Somehow he has been launched back to square one,
where Yuna cares more about her and others' beliefs in Yevon
than the man who was just washed up on shore, likely very lost
and confused, not to mention very insecure. And even in X, she
excused herself to introduce herself to him. No such thing here.
Wow. Yuna has absolutely no respect or empathy for him, despite
mourning and hoping he'll come back for two years. It reminds me
of those horrible boy/girlfriends we've all had who will abuse
or ignore you, but then cry and wail and threaten to kill
themselves if you even bring up the idea of breaking up with
them.
But yeah, Yevon's coming back, everyone knows it. And Tidus,
once again, tries to stand up to the BS and call them out on it
but once again, they laugh him off and sneer at him. Not even
three years in and Spira is already repeating history! Maybe the
fayth sent him back because they sensed that Spira was going to
dig itself a booby-trapped volcanic hole again, lmao. No wonder
he fled to Bevelle at the time of Will. He just had Besaid, his
new home, turned into a nursing home for the poor, oppressed,
totally innocent h*rdcore Yevon-supporters. Who would most
likely kill him.
Heck, at the end of Chapter 2 we see Tidus in a situation where
he is lonely, hungry, confused and sitting on a pontoon close to
tears. Like a local stray dog that's being avoided by the
townsfolk because it might have fleas. Meanwhile everyone else
is having a jolly good time at the party. You know, the one
where Tidus was forced to help set up and when he realised that
everyone he knew and loved had shredded every last ounce of
empathy for him? Nobody even notices that he's gone. They're all
concerned with Yuna instead.
#Post#: 868--------------------------------------------------
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
By: ChercheurObscur Date: December 21, 2014, 7:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I wonder why you think like that. Tidus is back, ok, but the
villagers came in the cove because of Yuna's return, not for
Tidus, they didn't know about it. Furthermore, you seem to
forget that Tidus is almost an unknown for everyone. He spent
only one day on Besaid in FFX ! And at the end, he disappears
before the great meeting in Luca stadium. He is a complete
unknown in Spira, except for some people. You can't blame people
to ignore him.
Yuna or someone else could have told people about him, ok, but
it's not as if they were rejecting him.
Yuna could have spent some time with Tidus before meeting the
elders, ok, but is it tragedy ? No, everything was planned by
Nojima : I said that they will argue about her future (so her
behavior is involded in their conversation) in a previous post,
but it appears that you didn't read it... This moment is very
instructive.
So please, stop being scandalmonder sometimes. If you don't like
the case of Yuna and Tidus (I am not talking about the others),
ok, it's your choice, but please don't say the novel itself is
bad about this point, you can't blame Nojima about it. :-\ The
most funny here is that, starting from Chapter 5, they will
spend ther time "together" until the end of the novel.
#Post#: 869--------------------------------------------------
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
By: kk Date: December 21, 2014, 11:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, personally, I'm trying to wait to see what else develops
before judging Yuna's change of character. I'm definitely wary.
Yes, it makes sense for Yuna to care about the elders a lot. For
one, they're villagers, and I think she cares about the entire
village of Besaid as if they were family, really. So it would be
hard for her to just be like "OKAY THAT'S ENOUGH, OLD PEOPLE,
SHUT UP NOW", haha. That's just not how she is. xD And two, she
probably feels guilty about the fact that she caused so many of
them emotional turmoil by overthrowing Yevon, basically. It was
very hard for HER to accept Yevon's lies and betrayal, so she
understands that they may need a little extra help.
But this novel takes place right after a game where Yuna
embraces her own self and begins to think for herself and care
about her own happiness, instead of just pleasing others. That's
like, the entire point of X-2. So for Nojima to take it to the
extreme that she is SO devoutly worried about these villagers
that she is willing to more or less completely ignore Tidus and
ignore her own wants... it looks weird.
I just feel that Nojima went overboard. I mean, in the X-2
ending, her and Tidus go running down the beach hand in hand,
and she says she's gonna tell him her story, and she's so
enthusiastic to be with him...... and then, what happens? The
old Yevon ladies swoop in and carry her away on their backs? She
never tells him her story like she says: everyone else tells
him. It just seems weird to go from Tidus and Yuna running to
the beach together to see all of their friends, and... then,
suddenly, Yuna doesn't speak to any of her friends for the
entire day. And considering the villagers in X-2 clearly
recognized Yuna, but never once acted this insanely possessive
towards her during her return to Besaid, nor did Yuna ever act
this insanely coddling to them in that entire game... this whole
thing just seems quite bizarre and over the top. It's very out
of line with X-2. It's like it almost completely disregards the
events of X-2. If it had went on for a few hours? Sure. But...
hasn't it been like an entire day? Tidus sleeps like 3 whole
times before he even gets to speak a word to the girl who just
fought tooth and nail to get him back, haha
But since apparently she's soon going to stop pandering to the
Yevoners and run away in the night soon, I guess it's alright...
I just still think it's weird, especially combined with rumors
of behavior we hear about later in the book, BUUUUUT I'm not
going to judge it harshly until I see what exactly she does in
the rest of the book! He could have probably just toned the
first two chapters down a notch, is all. Maybe it didn't need to
go on soooo long, making it look like Tidus is really lonely and
practically shunned by the rest of the characters. Because
that's really how it sounds and it's just a strange way to start
the novel... ???
Lulu's and Rikku's oddities are annoying, but since the book
isn't centered around them, I can forgive it if they redeem
Yuna. xD
#Post#: 870--------------------------------------------------
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
By: ChercheurObscur Date: December 21, 2014, 12:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=kk link=topic=45.msg869#msg869 date=1419184475]
I just feel that Nojima went overboard. I mean, in the X-2
ending, her and Tidus go running down the beach hand in hand,
and she says she's gonna tell him her story, and she's so
enthusiastic to be with him...... and then, what happens? The
old Yevon ladies swoop in and carry her away on their backs? She
never tells him her story like she says: everyone else tells
him. It just seems weird to go from Tidus and Yuna running to
the beach together to see all of their friends, and... then,
suddenly, Yuna doesn't speak to any of her friends for the
entire day.
[/quote]
I agree with you about this point ( I mean Yuna tells him she
has experienced a lot of things and Tidus tells her he wants to
know everything, and after... :P )
#Post#: 871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
By: Pyreflies_of_MJ Date: December 21, 2014, 8:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=kk link=topic=45.msg869#msg869 date=1419184475]
Yeah, personally, I'm trying to wait to see what else develops
before judging Yuna's change of character. I'm definitely wary.
Yes, it makes sense for Yuna to care about the elders a lot. For
one, they're villagers, and I think she cares about the entire
village of Besaid as if they were family, really. So it would be
hard for her to just be like "OKAY THAT'S ENOUGH, OLD PEOPLE,
SHUT UP NOW", haha. That's just not how she is. xD And two, she
probably feels guilty about the fact that she caused so many of
them emotional turmoil by overthrowing Yevon, basically. It was
very hard for HER to accept Yevon's lies and betrayal, so she
understands that they may need a little extra help.
But this novel takes place right after a game where Yuna
embraces her own self and begins to think for herself and care
about her own happiness, instead of just pleasing others. That's
like, the entire point of X-2. So for Nojima to take it to the
extreme that she is SO devoutly worried about these villagers
that she is willing to more or less completely ignore Tidus and
ignore her own wants... it looks weird.
I just feel that Nojima went overboard. I mean, in the X-2
ending, her and Tidus go running down the beach hand in hand,
and she says she's gonna tell him her story, and she's so
enthusiastic to be with him...... and then, what happens? The
old Yevon ladies swoop in and carry her away on their backs? She
never tells him her story like she says: everyone else tells
him. It just seems weird to go from Tidus and Yuna running to
the beach together to see all of their friends, and... then,
suddenly, Yuna doesn't speak to any of her friends for the
entire day. And considering the villagers in X-2 clearly
recognized Yuna, but never once acted this insanely possessive
towards her during her return to Besaid, nor did Yuna ever act
this insanely coddling to them in that entire game... this whole
thing just seems quite bizarre and over the top. It's very out
of line with X-2. It's like it almost completely disregards the
events of X-2. If it had went on for a few hours? Sure. But...
hasn't it been like an entire day? Tidus sleeps like 3 whole
times before he even gets to speak a word to the girl who just
fought tooth and nail to get him back, haha
But since apparently she's soon going to stop pandering to the
Yevoners and run away in the night soon, I guess it's alright...
I just still think it's weird, especially combined with rumors
of behavior we hear about later in the book, BUUUUUT I'm not
going to judge it harshly until I see what exactly she does in
the rest of the book! He could have probably just toned the
first two chapters down a notch, is all. Maybe it didn't need to
go on soooo long, making it look like Tidus is really lonely and
practically shunned by the rest of the characters. Because
that's really how it sounds and it's just a strange way to start
the novel... ???
Lulu's and Rikku's oddities are annoying, but since the book
isn't centered around them, I can forgive it if they redeem
Yuna. xD
[/quote]
Quoted for EMPHASIS! Right!? That's what I'm sayin'. In X-2 you
visit Besaid MULTIPLE times and not once does the village get in
her business. You even celebrate the birth of Lu's baby and
everything, there are a variety of missions that take place on
Besaid - and there was nary a single psychotic Yevon-obsessed
elder trying to monopolize Yuna's time. In fact, the people of
the village were sporting a chill attitude about everything, it
was nice. It did not feel stuffy at all, and the confrontation
with Beclem showed that if anything, the village was trying to
move away from vestiges of Yevon.
The only people latching on for dear life were in Bevelle. While
Besaid remained largely neutral during the New Yevon/Youth
League conflict, many people from Besaid had sided with the
Youth League - including the Aurochs. In general, it seemed as
though people were looking towards new horizons, not the past.
The time of Sin was over and people no longer sought out
summoners for guidance like they did before. (Until just now,
when they decided to resurrect Sin, but let's not even go there.
>_>)
This sh*t came WAY out of left field, it doesn't make any sense
with the established canon. It's like Nojima re-wrote the
history of the game, that is not alright.
And also, it's not like Besaid knew about their impending doom
with the whole Shuyin/Vegnagun thing. All of that was kept low
key. Besaid had no idea Yuna and co just saved the world again,
what would explain their massive flocking to see her and crowd
her personal space? She'd been to Besaid often since she left,
it doesn't make sense for them to act so brand new.
#Post#: 872--------------------------------------------------
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
By: Pyreflies_of_MJ Date: December 21, 2014, 9:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=ChercheurObscur link=topic=45.msg868#msg868
date=1419169705]
I wonder why you think like that. Tidus is back, ok, but the
villagers came in the cove because of Yuna's return, not for
Tidus, they didn't know about it. Furthermore, you seem to
forget that Tidus is almost an unknown for everyone. He spent
only one day on Besaid in FFX ! And at the end, he disappears
before the great meeting in Luca stadium. He is a complete
unknown in Spira, except for some people. You can't blame people
to ignore him.
Yuna or someone else could have told people about him, ok, but
it's not as if they were rejecting him.
Yuna could have spent some time with Tidus before meeting the
elders, ok, but is it tragedy ? No, everything was planned by
Nojima : I said that they will argue about her future (so her
behavior is involded in their conversation) in a previous post,
but it appears that you didn't read it... This moment is very
instructive.
So please, stop being scandalmonder sometimes. If you don't like
the case of Yuna and Tidus (I am not talking about the others),
ok, it's your choice, but please don't say the novel itself is
bad about this point, you can't blame Nojima about it. :-\ The
most funny here is that, starting from Chapter 5, they will
spend ther time "together" until the end of the novel.
[/quote]
To be honest, I don't know how to accurately address the
villagers coming to the cove - it's a little ambiguous. As I
mentioned in my previous comment, they didn't know about
Vegnagun, and previous drama in the temple had been abated
already. Yuna and co had been to Besaid and fixed the problems,
such as the fiends pouring from the temple and Dark Valefor -
the last trip to Besaid ended on a peaceful note. These people
were not so hyped to see Yuna before, even upon her first
return. Lulu was a bit concerned that she left without saying
anything, but that was it.
So it really doesn't make sense for the whole village to have
come just to see Yuna, I thought it was implied that they were
excited to see Yuna and Tidus reunited once again - which was by
any account - a miracle. Realistically, I don't know how the
hell those people got to the beach so quickly, or how they could
have known - chalk it up to video game magic, but it seemed
clear that at least some of them recognized Tidus or could tell
something important and special was happening.
In any case, the atmosphere from X-2 was colossally different
from what we are presented with here. It really appears as if
Nojima forgot or blatantly ignored many things from X-2, both
major and minor. And X-2 was a game that was all about the the
little stuff, it's why the character development worked so well.
Nojima didn't make the most out of the post-Sin Spira that was
established.
As far as Tidus not being known, I think that's up for debate.
You're absolutely right, he wasn't in Besaid for long, in terms
of the main pilgrimage. But if you recall, you have the option
of traveling Spira some more before facing Sin. You can actually
go back through the world and have new conversations with people
you met in the beginning, like the scene that's triggered with
Clasko by boarding the S.S. Liki - which you have to visit
Besaid to get to. My point is it can be argued that Tidus came
to know and familiarize himself with the people of Besaid beyond
his initial dumping into Spira.
But if that's too far-fetched or not canonical enough, there's
the fact that legendary guardians are treated like royalty in
FFX. Auron was granted massive respect and was regarded as
something of hero from a fairy tale. Tidus was not only a
legendary guardian, he actually helped defeat Sin for good,
which is something no one beyond Yuna's party can boast of.
He should actually be considered a historical figure, and Besaid
should know about him, regardless off whether they do or not.
It's a tradition for people to memorialize the dead to great
effect, and Yuna even said herself that they must never forget
the lives that were lost or the "dreams that have faded." It's
possible Yuna wanted to possessively hold his presence close to
her by not telling anyone, that it may have been difficult. But
now that he's back, what's her excuse for not sharing his
importance?
Tidus seemed upset that he wasn't getting any respect in Besaid
- and he was damn right. People keep telling me Nojima must have
had all kinds of noble reasons for what he wrote, both in he
novel and the audio drama. But the more that is revealed, the
more it feels like there really is no real meaning behind any of
it. He just wanted drama and controversy. He wanted to dispel
the light theme of FFX-2 and replace it with angst, misery and
darkness. Most fans didn't want that, and the backlash is the
result.
I remember thinking, okay, there must be a reason behind Yuna's
tragic behavior in the drama, and that Sin is probably not the
real antagonist - but, yeah, I've lost the desire to make sense
out of it. Nojima regressed the crap out of these characters,
they are all exhibiting their worst flaws and not much else.
What is the legitimate excuse for that?
As far as them arguing about their future goes, it's difficult
to absorb any potential dialogue between them because the
initial feeling has been so bad. If this book were a video game,
I wouldn't have kept playing. I'm not eager to see what unfurls
because it started off on the worst possible note it could have
played. The Yuna/Tidus dynamic was a special one and Nojima
really messed it up for me. I don't see how it can be redeemed,
to tell the truth, and I'll likely feel alienated by everything
that follows between Tidus and Yuna - especially an argument,
that shouldn't even be on the table right now. There's no reason
why Yuna should feel obligated to play some role immediately,
she's supposed to be starting her new story independent from the
desires of others, and Tidus just came back.
The atmosphere should be loving, playful, not full of contempt
and arguments, dear God. Angst and petty squabbles do not
interest me here. Their relationship has barely had a chance to
get off the runway and Nojima decides to throw an argument in
for fun - it feels so fake. Arguments are a natural part of any
relationship, but even in X, it's clear that that drama didn't
play a role in their bond.
One of the big rumors about the book was that Yuna appeared to
be "tired" of him, that she thought he was being too childish.
If that is true, it's all the more sickening. So far, I really
don't like Yuna. She was ridiculous in the audio drama and she's
ridiculous in the book - so far- and by most accounts and
reviews I've seen of the thing. And what's more is that Tidus
just takes it. He just accepts Yuna's bulls*hit. No, Tidus, no.
Stand up for yourself, goddammit. >_>
What have I taken way from all this? Nojima should not be
allowed to write anything by himself.
#Post#: 873--------------------------------------------------
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
By: Pyreflies_of_MJ Date: December 22, 2014, 12:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=CrystalOfLies link=topic=45.msg867#msg867
date=1419158043]
-claps- Pyreflies, you never cease to amaze me with your
speeches.
Let's look at this from Tidus' point of view some more. In X, he
and his friends took down a centuries-old false religion that
was masking the truth to defeating Sin. Throughout half of the
game, the maesters have declared them traitors, they sent Dark
Aeon assassins after them, pretty much told Yuna that her
father's sacrifice was useless and one particularly crazy
maester tried to kill, deceive and manipulate them multiple
times. They are hypocrites (use machina), self-aware (Mika stops
Seymour's sending because he is unsent too) and cowards (Mika
runs away to the Farplane, leaving Yevon in shambles).
Come X-2, with the rise of New Yevon (and yes, Tidus knows this
because Rikku told him, not Yuna. Yeah Yuna, how consistent is
your narration in that game since you are telling Tidus
everything that's happened!?). While not as evil as the original
Yevon, their scheme was to find spheres pertaining to Spira's
history and hide them deep underground, therefore pretty much
wiping out the knowledge of Spira's past. They were under the
belief that memories of the past were weaknesses and not part of
someone's... well, soul. And with the defeat of Trema, that
matter is resolved.
Here comes the return of Tidus, who sacrificed his life to both
defy Yevon and put an end to Spira's curse once and for all. Now
he sees that the Yevon lifestyle is slowly seeping back into
Spira, and nobody is attempting to question or even joke around
with the fact that it was one of the causes of Spira's
near-downfall. Somehow he has been launched back to square one,
where Yuna cares more about her and others' beliefs in Yevon
than the man who was just washed up on shore, likely very lost
and confused, not to mention very insecure. And even in X, she
excused herself to introduce herself to him. No such thing here.
Wow. Yuna has absolutely no respect or empathy for him, despite
mourning and hoping he'll come back for two years. It reminds me
of those horrible boy/girlfriends we've all had who will abuse
or ignore you, but then cry and wail and threaten to kill
themselves if you even bring up the idea of breaking up with
them.
But yeah, Yevon's coming back, everyone knows it. And Tidus,
once again, tries to stand up to the BS and call them out on it
but once again, they laugh him off and sneer at him. Not even
three years in and Spira is already repeating history! Maybe the
fayth sent him back because they sensed that Spira was going to
dig itself a booby-trapped volcanic hole again, lmao. No wonder
he fled to Bevelle at the time of Will. He just had Besaid, his
new home, turned into a nursing home for the poor, oppressed,
totally innocent h*rdcore Yevon-supporters. Who would most
likely kill him.
Heck, at the end of Chapter 2 we see Tidus in a situation where
he is lonely, hungry, confused and sitting on a pontoon [i]close
to tears. Like a local stray dog that's being avoided by the
townsfolk because it might have fleas. Meanwhile everyone else
is having a jolly good time at the party. You know, the one
where Tidus was forced to help set up and when he realised that
everyone he knew and loved had shredded every last ounce of
empathy for him? Nobody even notices that he's gone. They're all
concerned with Yuna instead.
[/quote]
You told no lies. And can I just say, dear God, can they stop
giving so much of a crap about Yuna!? F*** YUNA, lmao! They've
been making everything far too Yuna-centric, while at the same
time making her less likable - how does that work? All I can do
is look at Yuna like this:
HTML https://31.media.tumblr.com/0b85f0d4efaa4a72bddf0cda98456d36/tumblr_inline_mswmjdrlsu1qz4rgp.gif
And it's not even just about Tidus, because FFX-2 was also about
her personal journey. She came into herself more than ever
before and seemed eager to start a new story for herself, but
now here she is trying to please everyone like a noble acolyte.
That crap got old two games ago, hon, let's move on. You don't
have to be a martyr every second of your life.
But what you said about Besaid becoming a den for Yevonites and
Tidus leaving - yas. That was one of the most glaring things
about the audio drama. Tidus's ass is in Bevelle.... He is
literally on another continent from Yuna, it sounds really bad.
It certainly didn't seem like a temporary thing and Tidus
appeared stressed even before Yuna broke up with him - or
whatever that was that she did.
HTML http://www.lipstickalley.com/images/smilies/Pidgin%20Smilies/disdain.png<br
/>Lord, it's pretty telling when you have to run away to Bevelle
,
a place where they all had some pretty crap experiences.
Look at that map, you see how far that is, L.O.L
HTML http://www.freespacetime.com/proj2/images/spiramap.jpg
And you know, I still don't understand how we are supposed to
interpret Yuna's narrative voice. I always thought she was
talking to his "ghost" basically, but you've raised the point
that she was actually talking to him about their journey after
he's come back and the game is a flash back - the reason that
doesn't make sense to me is because there were several instances
when she would talk to him in present tense, saying she wished
he was there with her and how she missed him, their moments,
etc.
This was especially the case in the mission in Chapter 5 where
you go to Luca and relive all the memories with the moogle
apparition thing, and also when she visits the spring in
Macalania. There's also the option of not bringing Tidus back,
which would in effect negate the possibility of her talking to
Tidus for "real". I just figured that her saying "it all started
when I saw this sphere of you", was merely an inward refection
and her not talking to Tidus for once - but perhaps you're
right, it's actually confused the mess out of me. :P
In either case, though, it's clear the continuity was lost.
Doesn't add up either way you spin it. Either she was eager to
talk to him beyond the grave, or she was eager to relate every
morsel of their story to him - the Yuna from the novel/drama
ain't echoing that shiz.
#Post#: 874--------------------------------------------------
Re: Final Fantasy X-2.5 : The Truth
By: Pyreflies_of_MJ Date: December 22, 2014, 5:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
And let me just offer a disclaimer here (I'll try not to
ramble):
At one time I was extremely reverent of Square Enix and I
praised the company to the Gods. They were consistent, they
seemed to care about fans and created great franchises. And even
if I don't love all FF titles I've played, I could find
something to like about them and finished them anyway. (and hey,
I've always loved Kingdom Hearts I/II)
But Final Fantasy X was actually my first JRPG, and I fell in
love with it a good decade ago. While X-2 may have some iffy
spots, it is also a great game and I basically consider them
both to be one entity. After 10 years and many more games,
FFX/X-2 is still hands down my favorite. I felt such an
emotional connection to Tidus and Yuna as a couple, as
soulmates.
The original lore and character development was perfect as is
and I never would have thought for a moment, that Square would
touch it. I didn't even think they'd realistically do anything
else with this project, though I wanted them to. I was always up
for a X-3, but I surely didn't think they'd butcher it in such a
way. When I initially read about the contents of the novel and
what happens to Tidus, I seriously balled my eyes out, I was
devastated. And everything else was just salt on the wound.
Square also was incredibly misleading about it all, the
promotional material and teasers pointed in an entirely
different direction. Square Enix slapped fans like me in the
face, fans who are probably way too emotionally invested in a
video game - but ha, that's alright.
So while my posts may seem [s]obnoxious[/s] intense at times,
that's just my gut reaction. I can't help but make this all into
a joke, because that's what it feels like. Square has basically
said that they're not even going to continue with any of it -
now that is the real punchline. But at least it gives me more
justification in ignoring it, because they seem to be doing the
same thing.
Why they are endorsing an additional translation of the novel
that bombed? I have no idea. But really, thank you
ChercheurObscur for translating it. Much love to you, and I do
appreciate that you are willing to be open-minded about the book
and how it relates to the original works. I just can't
personally be that way, it's really hard for me, but I never
intend to offend. ^_^
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