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#Post#: 563--------------------------------------------------
The Inconsistencies and meaning of canon
By: SilverPrince Date: March 21, 2014, 3:45 pm
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Hello, all. New to this forum, found it after searching for a
translation of that abomination called the Novella. Looking at
this small forum, I see a topic talking about canonical
revelations, but I'm wanting to throw a wrench into it and
examine some of the inconsistencies within that poke holes at
the idea of it being canon. Without further ado:
The Shoopufs:
In the Audio Drama, Wakka talks about how the Moonflow Shoopuf
was the last of its kind after Sin killed the last female 30
years ago. However, in Final Fantasy X-2 Shoopufs are seen in
Bikanel Desert and around Mt. Gagazet.
Children of the guardians and summoner:
While this one is pretty small and not much of an argument, Lulu
tells Chuami that people come around claiming to be children of
Braska, Jecht, and Auron all the time. Okay, not very
unbelievable. But take into consideration, the people doing this
would be around their late teens to early twenties. I don't
think many people would try to claim to be a child of Jecht or
Braska, given that it would mean they're a sibling to Tidus or
Yuna. Closer to elevenish, maybe, since that was around the time
of the pilgrimage.
Final Aeon?
Yuna speaks of how the only thing that can kill Sin is the final
Aeon. This is wrong for multiple reasons. First, using the final
Aeon can't kill Sin. It will stop him for a time, but he will
rise again. Second, the only way to kill Sin is to defeat him
from inside and kill the final Aeon, then Yu Yevon; Yuna knows
this. Third, Yuna never even had a final Aeon. You could
technically count Anima, I suppose, but she isn't required to
beat the game, and if it's the international version and you
miss the destruction sphere, she isn't gonna be in your final
party! Finally, Yunalesca is dead. While she could have been
brought back like Sin had, I highly doubt she would be willing
to help Yuna make a Final Aeon, especially after her refusal to
sacrifice one of her guardians in the first game.
Begin edit: (This is one that came to me when thinking about the
FFX-2 endings)
Clothes:
The translation for the first chapter of the Novella (as
provided on this forum) doesn't fall in line with the true
ending of FFX-2. It has Tidus returning, Yuna embracing him, and
them returned to Besaid Village. The elders made Yuna change out
of her risque clothing and into proper attire. The true ending
still has her in her gunner outfit. While changing back to
Gunner would make sense for Last Mission--going back to the way
she was in YRP, I really can't see that being something she
changes into to go to Zanarkand with Tidus.
End edit:
Definition of canon:
I'm a big Whovian, and canon gets thrown around a lot there. So
let's go to the time war..
Comic books:
The comic has the time war ending at the hand's of the Eighth
Doctor using a weapon called the Moment. The Moment was a de-mat
gun linked with the Key of Rassilon. The idea behind this was
the Doctor fired the de-mat gun and Key of Rassilon combination
and wiped the Daleks and Time Lords from reality itself.
The 50th Anniversary special:
The War Doctor, which was a regeneration of the Eighth Doctor
and LONG after his time, stole the Moment. The Moment was an
ancient weapon from close to the beginning of Time Lord society
that was locked away for its power.
The relevance? The Last Great Time War was forced into canon
through its inclusion in the plot of the show. But the true end
is the one that happened in the show. Why? The show is the main
medium. If Doctor Who was a comic book series translated into a
show, then the Comic Book would be the canon, but that is not
the case. For it to be considered true canon, it would be
necessary for it to be referenced in FFX-3, which doesn't exist
as of yet.
Now inevitable, Advent Children will be brought into it. "Advent
Children was a TV movie and is an accepted canon for the saga of
FFVII". Fair point. But Cloud's character never gained full
closure on the deaths of Aerith and Zack. The movie gives him
that and allows his character to finally move on. Compare that
to Tidus and Yuna who had a closed story. All their loose ends
were tied, there weren't really any questions left to ask. Their
characters were at peace.
Is X-3 coming? It is, we all know it is. But until it actually
hits, I find it hard to consider the Novella and Audio Drama as
hard canon. What do you all think?
#Post#: 564--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Inconsistencies and meaning of canon
By: CrystalOfLies Date: March 21, 2014, 4:11 pm
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True, the 'Final Aeon' thing bugs me. Unless Yuna just lied to
them (Again...) for some reason, because they broke tradition
and used more 'modern' means to kill Sin off for good. However,
Spira helped immensely in the final showdown by singing the Hymn
of the Fayth, and it is implied during the ending that everybody
was watching the battle from the ground. I don't think her
saying 'The only way to defeat Sin is to tear into it and
destroy its core' is gonna cause major uproars.
However, maybe she was panicking and just blurted out the wrong
thing, since she grew up with that tradition her whole life and
it naturally came as a first thought. But in X-2.5, she has her
memories erased at one point. It's unclear whether it was her
memories of the events on the island that was erased, or her
feelings and memories of Tidus, which in return erases her
memories on having an open mind about things and finding other
ways to solve problems, which Tidus helped her immensely in that
area. Either way is plausible, though considering the tone this
is heading in, it probably would be the latter that is more
likely.
On a side note: If X-3 does happen to exist, I bet a big part of
the theme of that game would be lying. Yuna lying to Tidus about
her new love, Kurgum possibly lying to Chuami about his love for
Yuna, Chuami possibly lying to Lulu and everyone else about her
father... It makes sense since Yevon was basically lying to
everybody in Spira. The lying would start hurting a lot of
people too, like how at the end of Will, Tidus is in denial
about Yuna loving somebody else, and it's paining him.
#Post#: 565--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Inconsistencies and meaning of canon
By: SilverPrince Date: March 21, 2014, 5:35 pm
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[quote author=CrystalOfLies link=topic=33.msg564#msg564
date=1395436316]
True, the 'Final Aeon' thing bugs me. Unless Yuna just lied to
them (Again...) for some reason, because they broke tradition
and used more 'modern' means to kill Sin off for good. However,
Spira helped immensely in the final showdown by singing the Hymn
of the Fayth, and it is implied during the ending that everybody
was watching the battle from the ground. I don't think her
saying 'The only way to defeat Sin is to tear into it and
destroy its core' is gonna cause major uproars.
However, maybe she was panicking and just blurted out the wrong
thing, since she grew up with that tradition her whole life and
it naturally came as a first thought. But in X-2.5, she has her
memories erased at one point. It's unclear whether it was her
memories of the events on the island that was erased, or her
feelings and memories of Tidus, which in return erases her
memories on having an open mind about things and finding other
ways to solve problems, which Tidus helped her immensely in that
area. Either way is plausible, though considering the tone this
is heading in, it probably would be the latter that is more
likely.
On a side note: If X-3 does happen to exist, I bet a big part of
the theme of that game would be lying. Yuna lying to Tidus about
her new love, Kurgum possibly lying to Chuami about his love for
Yuna, Chuami possibly lying to Lulu and everyone else about her
father... It makes sense since Yevon was basically lying to
everybody in Spira. The lying would start hurting a lot of
people too, like how at the end of Will, Tidus is in denial
about Yuna loving somebody else, and it's paining him.
[/quote]
I'm not sure it was either of those that got erased, that's
something unclear in translation, right? Like you said, Yuna was
most likely lying to Tidus about a new loves. The combination of
Kurgum telling Chuami he doesn't love her, then saying "only
summoners can understand", followed by Lulu telling Tidus he
knows Yuna better than that gives a lot of indication that she's
trying to protect him from something. Secrecy and lying would
definitely play a role, if this is the groundwork for X-3.
Another small thing worthy of discussion is the revival of Sin
itself. Sin is an armor, not really a being of its own. Yu Yevon
pulls the strings through the body of the Final Aeon. So Yu
Yevon would have had to have been revived. Okay, plausible. He's
been expelled from Jecht/BFA, so he'd have to go back inside of
him, and then start rebuilding the armor. Information derived
from what we know of the Calms says this takes several years to
do. Assuming this happened right after Yuna beckoned Tidus,
that's still only six months. That isn't enough time for Sin to
be rebuilt.
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