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#Post#: 1916--------------------------------------------------
Holy Grail?
By: wstagner Date: May 10, 2013, 8:34 am
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All this talk of "chasing" the Holy Grail of Bob Bogle's WDR or
Hank Marvin's "that sound" what about the drum sound on those
early toons of both? Neither Tony Mehan (Shad's 1st drummer)
nor Howie Johnston (Ventures 1st drummer) are around to tellus
what or how it was done. Brian Bennett sounds nothing like Tony
and Mel, Joe Barile, and now Leon sound nothing like Howie.
So, how is the Holy Grail to be achieve w/o capturing the
"original" drum sound? If Holy Grail is the end game, the
drummer, the drums used, or any related equipment cannot be left
oota the equation.
#Post#: 1917--------------------------------------------------
Re: Holy Grail?
By: tabalt11 Date: May 10, 2013, 10:53 am
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You're exactly right Walt. Howie preferred a lot of
rimshots & it didn't matter whether he was using
the snare or the toms. Also what may have
also been overlooked in his playing was
his tendency while playing the beat
to- for want of a better term,
SLERVE his sticks.
Yes we heard the da da, da twist beat but he
incorporated 'that little extra' with the one hand!
However, prowess-wise I don't think he measured up
to any of his successors. The distinction he did receive
was that 'those early albums' are often considered by fans
to be the very best from their vast inventory & his impeccable
timing made it all possible.
#Post#: 1920--------------------------------------------------
Re: Holy Grail?
By: wstagner Date: May 10, 2013, 11:40 am
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Tom, sadly I don't think we'll ever no about his powess since he
was only on the early records and there are no recordings of him
posted anywhere I'm aware of other than his ventures records.
Howie, Mel, Joe, Leon brot their own u neek sound 2 the V.
U hav said b4 that u thot Joe injected a bretha fresh err to the
groop after Mel left in 72. I agree w/that. Howie, Mel and
Leon wer/R snarecentric. Joe was mr. tomtom. ;D
#Post#: 1921--------------------------------------------------
Re: Holy Grail?
By: wstagner Date: May 10, 2013, 1:03 pm
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Why has no 1 ever axed what kinds drums or stix Howie used? The
same for other V drummers.
I'd say that no 1 thinx it matters and/or cares?
Don/Bob were newbie geetar players early on. Howie, Mel, and
Joe were all experienced drummers. Who were their influences?
We know that Mel played on Monster Mash and Jan Davis' Fugitive.
Who'd he play with b4 that?
Does any 1 reely no watt tyme it is? ;D
#Post#: 2048--------------------------------------------------
Re: Holy Grail?
By: abstamaria Date: June 10, 2013, 7:29 am
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I am curious what drums they used in the early days. I am sure
that was the basic set, with just a single mounted tom and one
cymbal (we didn't distinguish between crash and ride in thiose
days). There is a discussion now on the Shadows forum on the
correct cymbals for that old sound.
Andy
#Post#: 2052--------------------------------------------------
Re: Holy Grail?
By: wstagner Date: June 10, 2013, 10:56 am
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I'll bet Leon Taylor nose.
#Post#: 2290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Holy Grail?
By: Stix Date: December 23, 2013, 1:29 pm
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Ok, so I am late to this party but still I am glad to be here.
I play drums in the GWG Band with Walt. I want to address a
couple of things here with regards to the "Holy Grail" string
from earlier (much earlier).
A lot of drummers especially in cover style bands look to
duplicate certain sounds much like a guitarist would try to
emulate a particular sound. It is very difficult with more
modern-day drums to duplicate the way that old vintage drums
sound. Sure there are little tuning tricks that we can do to get
closer but, as you guitar gods know a Mosrite just "sounds" like
a Mosrite and a Fender Stratocaster sounds like a Strat and does
not sound like a Mosrite or a Gibson.
The older drums were built with different precision, different
materials and different technology. I find that trying to get
the exact Mel Taylor sound out of my current day Yamaha Stage
Custom kit is really a waste of time because it will never get
there. Just like you would never get a Les Paul-Gibson to get to
sound like a Strat. All that being said, for me its more about
paying homage to the style and spirit of the music and the way
it was played more so than trying to duplicate the exact sound.
Now, if money was no object for me, I would definitely welcome a
good old vintage set of Gretch Champagne Sparkle drums to bang
on with the boys and I would bet the sound would be a heck of a
lot closer than what I am getting now. Hmmmmmm Christmas is only
a few days away.
Stix Out 8)
#Post#: 2292--------------------------------------------------
Re: Holy Grail?
By: wstagner Date: December 23, 2013, 2:24 pm
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Welcome, Stix.
Agree with all your statements.
Over in the Shadows 4um, people argue/bicker over Hank's sound
all the time.
Many Ventures fans PREFER the Mosrite sound (Nokie) or Bob's
Jazzmaster sound.
Fortunately, there are relatively recent recordings of those
things to get a sound "bead" on.
If you had a time machine and could bring back all that old
stuff to today, MAYBE that exact sound could be recreated.
Most of my guitars now have noiseless pickups and I'll never
return to the single coils....just can't stand the hum.
Also, even the so-called live early Ventures recordings...we
suspect some of them aren't even live. We know that the USA
release ON STAGE was recorded "live" in the studio so who knows
4sure what The VEntures sounded like live back in 1965.
Those looking 4 the holy grail will remain disappointed. Those
of us who play in the spririt of the genre will help the music
live on.
#Post#: 2296--------------------------------------------------
Re: Holy Grail?
By: tabalt11 Date: December 23, 2013, 2:33 pm
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A lot of the album covers showed Mel using Gretch
drums but later he switched to Slingerland. His sets
looked 'their best' when he visited Japan for the tours,
he may have 'on occasion' been surrounded by 'almost'
two complete sets. They were obviously 'donated' by the
Japanese for the duration of the tour!
I'm gonna try to 'roust' Tom Connolly here to join in as he
would have 'more particulars' on Howie & Joe's drum kit
preference!
#Post#: 2298--------------------------------------------------
Re: Holy Grail?
By: wstagner Date: December 23, 2013, 2:52 pm
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It's un4chewnate we can't get Leon involved here. I'm sure he
nose things that only he/Mel wood no.
However, the fact remains that those people chasing the holy
grail will remain unsatisfied.
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