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#Post#: 1285--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Poll--Ventures vs. Shadows
By: cockroach Date: July 15, 2012, 2:13 am
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Blimey, you Americans are brave raising this issue... ;D
Hope you don't have too many of the Shads fans reading this
topic on this site!!
Many Shadows fans are brutally partisan, often really putting
the Ventures down.
There used to be an old saying; 'comparisons are odious'...and
another saying....'better to let sleeping dogs lie'!
p.s me? I'm a British born migrant to Australia, been down
under for nearly 50 years, but I love BOTH bands and all the
others too- including the Atlantics from Australia, who had a
huge hit here in 1963 with their tune Bombora...and they are
also still playing with three of the four original members...
#Post#: 1286--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Poll--Ventures vs. Shadows
By: wstagner Date: July 15, 2012, 9:43 am
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HaHa....brave, NO!
Brazen, YES!
Instigator, YES!
I visit the Shads 4um daily and I'm well-aware of what you say.
I'm like you, I appreciate BOTH bands as I see them quite as
different entities within the genre. I didn't have much
appreciation for the Shads until I got my hands on the live 89
DVD. I much prefer live recordings of bands.
We have our "snobs" w/in the Ventures camp as well. 4
example...Bob Bogle, Nokie Edwards, Gerry McGee comparison. The
Fender vs. Mosrite comparison. The Mel Taylor, Joe Barile, Leon
Taylor comparison.
We all have our preferences. That's what recordings were made
for. Pick your faves and just lissen.
You've given me an idea for next months poll tho, so thanks a
bunche!
#Post#: 1288--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Poll--Ventures vs. Shadows
By: cockroach Date: July 16, 2012, 8:43 am
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I agree Walt, I also think the only real way to hear anything is
a live performance...
So many tricks are possible when recording (those session
players, and drop-ins and even more so with digital equipment)
that watching and listening to a live performance is the best
way to see and hear who can really play and who can't...although
with the tricks available for live shows now (pitch correction
for vocals, off stage techs modifying instrument sounds etc for
example) even live shows can be a bit suspect!
Let's face it , all of the Ventures past and present, and all of
the Shadows, were and/or are good musicians, and their gear was
always good stuff (even if we couldn't afford it), and they
played good well written tunes..why argue endlessly about
details?
Too much anorak stuff kills enjoyment of the MUSIC...which is
presumably why we're all here!
#Post#: 1289--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Poll--Ventures vs. Shadows
By: wstagner Date: July 16, 2012, 10:34 am
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I agree. And sometimes it's not good to get too close to your
musical heroes. You might not like what you sea! ;)
#Post#: 1291--------------------------------------------------
NEW POLL - WHY WAS JAMES BURTON MORE FAMOUS THAN THE VENTURES
By: oldflogger Date: July 20, 2012, 9:58 am
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NEW POLL - WHY WAS JAMES BURTON MORE FAMOUS THAN THE VENTURES.
Television my friend. Ricky Nelson and the "The Ozzie and
Harriett Show" put James Burton on the map in the UK with all of
his string bending, and Quote Hank Marvine, "All of the steak he
was eating."
oldlfogger
#Post#: 1292--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Poll--Ventures vs. Shadows
By: wstagner Date: July 20, 2012, 11:07 am
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Whose Riky Nelson? Is that Willie's sun?
#Post#: 1303--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Poll--Ventures vs. Shadows
By: Gandy Dancer Date: July 23, 2012, 5:11 pm
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I've never understood this myself. They weren't completely
unknown, Jeff Beck for one has admitted to being influenced by
them. They certainly had a much "wilder" sound than The Shadows.
As far as "Apache" goes I'll admit The Shadows version blows The
Ventures one away but I think Ingmann put them both to shame.
;D
#Post#: 2162--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Poll--Ventures vs. Shadows
By: geoff1711 Date: July 24, 2013, 3:09 am
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When the Ventures had hits in the UK with Walk Don't Run, in the
charts at the same time as John Barry, I was still at school and
everything American was very cool, a friend at the time, who's
home always seemed a bit Yankie ( they had a fridge, washing
machine and his mum had died blonde hair! which where I was
brought up was pretty unusual then) summed it up by saying:
America - Coffee, gum, John Wayne!! yeah!
England - Tea, polite old ladies
So on that basis alone they should have had hit after hit, but
their sound is different to the Shadows, The Ventures sound is
more "head down and go for it" and along the way timing gets a
bit lost as is clarity, The Shadows original image over here was
of gritty coffee bars and post war Britain still a grim place to
look at because of all the bombed out buildings still to be
demolished and rebuilt, they had a new sound and a precision of
style, they may have played similar tunes just in a different
way.
Don't forget though that within a couple of years Beatlemania
had started and The Shadows and Cliff's image changed from mean
rebellious kids to cuddly family entertainers, and now it was
the likes of The Rolling Stones that made your dad foam at the
mouth.
Surf music in the USA didn't really go out of fashion until
Hendrix and flower power.
And to us Brits on some of the later tracks with that bloody
awful (and supposed to be sexy??) growl one of the guys kept
doing was just plain cringeworthy, it was bad enough first time
round with Roy Orbison on Pretty Woman but rehashed by The
Ventures a number of years on - not for me!
50 years on and both bands have tracks I like and tracks I
don't, but there are more Shadows tracks I like than Ventures -
the reason? The Shadows playing expertise and technique seemed
to improve with age, The Ventures style stayed the seem but
seemed to get a bit sloppy.
One odd thing though, years back Hawaii 50 was a massive TV hit
running for years, I only found out long after the show finished
that it was a Ventures tune, now that has to be poor marketing
on behalf of their management.
Geoff
#Post#: 2163--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Poll--Ventures vs. Shadows
By: wstagner Date: July 24, 2013, 9:57 am
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The Ventures style stayed the seem but seemed to get a bit
sloppy.
Geoff, can you be more specific in 2 ways:
1)When you think this occur and
2)What specifically about the sound and/or playing.
Then I'll better be able to comment (or not). ;D
#Post#: 2164--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Poll--Ventures vs. Shadows
By: geoff1711 Date: July 24, 2013, 1:17 pm
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A typo there Walt, seem should be same.
Re when the Ventures got sloppy can't really say I hadn't
followed instro music for years, but got back into it 10 or so
years ago and bought a lot of CDs some Ventures compillations
amongst them and on the 3 disc Walk Don't Run set some of the
tracks just seem as if they've lost their way a little, they
sounded like re-recordings, not the originals.
On the other hand it could be that their style had changed to
suit the Japan market where they are big.
When I heard them in the 60's it was Wow!! this set was just
lack lustre - and that growl - just don't go there!!
Similar to over here elderly chaps ( like me ) who play Shadows
tributes do the Shadows Walk (not me), it looked good on the
then teenage Shadows in the late 50's early 60's but 50 years
later, in my view, it's best left to history.
Keep twanging
Heoff
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