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#Post#: 13768--------------------------------------------------
Spanish speaker needed...Another reason California is going off
the rails....
By: SHL Date: March 28, 2019, 6:56 pm
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I was online today looking at some court forms we use in filing
divorces and other legal cases in California. I often refer
people to the California Judicial Council website for these
forms if they want to fill them out themselves.
Well, they changed the site, and now they have their forms for
divorces in various languages, which I was shocked to see, since
we have a rule of law that says all documents filed in a
California case have to be in English (I suppose it makes sense
since that is the language here). Apparently, someone is trying
to be helpful, because they had added forms in the following
languages:Arabic, Spanish, Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese. The
forms literally had all the Arabic, Chinese, Korean and
Vietnamese characters on them, so I couldn`t make heads or tales
out them. The Spanish one was better of course. But, I think
they are for informational purposes only because the Spanish
form says, „No entregue a la corte. Solo para information.“ I
think that means not to file with the court and it´s only for
information. That is literally what that means isnt`t it?
I suppose this is our way of trying to be helpful to immigrants?
They never used to do this. Wow. What`s happening with all this?
It´s like a language revolution. You can already take your test
for a drivers license in about 6 different languages, Spanish
for sure, Tagalog, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, and maybe they
added Arabic too. I have to wonder what the point of all this
is....
#Post#: 13769--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spanish speaker needed...Another reason California is going
off the rails....
By: Susan Date: March 28, 2019, 7:49 pm
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Yes, you are correct about what it means. ¨Don´t deliver to the
court. Only for information.¨
#Post#: 13771--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spanish speaker needed...Another reason California is going
off the rails....
By: Alharacas Date: March 28, 2019, 8:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Steven, your translation is correct.
IMO, it really is helpful to try to make sure people understand
what's required of them. There are often people from some ethnic
group preying on others from the same group, by intentionally
providing false information and/or by demanding lots of money
for things which are actually free, or at least not nearly as
expensive as these predators claim.
I don't suppose it's different in the US, and it's exactly what
I've seen and been told about here (by the victims, mind you,
it's not hearsay): so-called translators demanding really large
sums of money just for making a phone call to the landlord of a
flat, for example.
And I think we don't really realize how privileged most of us
are, having been taught at least one, if not several foreign
languages at school (however badly/rudimentary). It needs to be
seen to be believed what an incredibly slow and laborious
process it is if you're required to learn your first foreign
language as an adult - even if you're otherwise educated, which
many immigrants are not.
We tend to think that getting to A2 is a question of weeks or
months rather than years, particularly if you're immersed in the
culture (unless the script is really complicated and/or it's a
tonal language), don't we? Well, it's not if you're in your 40s
and had never tried to say a word in another language before.
#Post#: 13776--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spanish speaker needed...Another reason California is going
off the rails....
By: SHL Date: March 28, 2019, 10:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=935.msg13771#msg13771
date=1553821517]
Yes, Steven, your translation is correct.
IMO, it reall is helpful to try to make sure people understand
what's required of them. There are often people from some ethnic
group preying on others from the same group, by intentionally
providing false information and/or by demanding lots of money
for things which are actually free, or at least not nearly as
expensive as these predators claim.
I don't suppose it's different in the US, and it's exactly what
I've seen and been told about here (by the victims, mind you,
it's not hearsay): so-called translators demanding really large
sums of money just for making a phone call to the landlord of a
flat, for example.
And I think we don't really realize how privileged most of us
are, having been taught at least one, if not several foreign
languages at school (however badly/rudimentary). It needs to be
seen to be believed what an incredibly slow and laborious
process it is if you're required to learn your first foreign
language as an adult - even if you're otherwise educated, which
many immigrants are not.
We tend to think that getting to A2 is a question of weeks or
months rather than years, particularly if you're immersed in the
culture (unless the script is really complicated and/or it's a
tonal language), don't we? Well, it's not if you're in your 40s
and had never tried to say a word in another language before.
[/quote]
Thank you Susan, and Alharacas.
Yes, we have only one form that is filed with the court, called
a Summons, which is just a two page notice that is in both
English and Spanish, sort of side-by-side, along with the basic
Petition for divorce. I have to go over all the paperwork with
people before I file anything, and I usually just put my hand
over the Spanish section and say, „just forget this part, it´s
in Spanish“, unless the client is of course a Spanish speaker.
I always wondered why the one page was bi-lingual and the others
not. There be some reason, but I don`t know what it is. I
suppose it contains a lot of important information they want to
make sure people don`t miss, and we do have a large Spanish
speaking population.
I understand Alharacas`point, which was well-taken. Especially,
in LA I read about a lot of Spanish speaking people from Mexico
who were being scammed by others from Mexico running offices
with a big sign out front reading „Notario.“ Well, a notary in
the US is not a „notario“ in Mexico. Not even close. A notary in
the US is just an average person who, for $10, authenticates a
signature. That´s all they do. They are not lawyers, they have
no legal training, nothing. They pay a small fee each year, get
a stamp and notarize documents for people, doing nothing but
attesting to the fact that the person who signed something
really was the person who signed it (by checking the ID of the
person and recording their name in a book). This is really only
required to record real estate documents, and the purpose is to
avoid fraud (having someone phony up signatures on deeds). But,
a „notario“ in Mexico is totally different (probably closer to
ein Notar in Germany). To my knowledge in Mexico they have what
are called a „licenciado“ and a „notario“ and I believe they are
both something like lawyers, perhaps with somewhat different
functions. So, because of the similarities in the words,
„notary“ and „notario“ a lot of Spanish speaking people were
getting duped into thinking they were getting legal services and
good advice from other Spanish speakers, they weren`t. I think I
read somewhere that courts were putting up signs in Spanish that
a „notario“ was not a lawyer in the US and to be on guard not to
be taken in by people using this title and pretending to be
lawyers, and paying a lot of money to them for nothing, or very
little. (The concept of the „notary“ having a lawyer function
goes back to the Napoleonic Code, which Continental Europe
adopted, as opposed to Britain, and then was imported to Latin
and South America. That´s the history, probably way
oversimplified, where Britain had its Common Law, which the US
ended up.)
Alharacas is correct in saying that we often forget the degree
of effort, work and time it takes to acquire skills in a foreign
language. I think it is surprisingly underestimated, which is
why I am always suspicious of people selling „learn a language
quick“ courses. It just doesn`t work that way. It´s also why I
am skeptical of polyglots claiming to have special methods. Even
if they really are polyglots, whatever worked for them is not
likely to work for the average person. And age is a huge
factor. I was lucky in that I started learning German at 19, but
I spent 5 years really working at it. And, that was not just a
light study. It was my major at a University. It took 2 years
just to get the grammar down, and that was an hour a day of
class, 5 days a week for 2 years. And, after that, at a
different University it was 12 hours a week with at least 2
professors, both of whom were native speakers, and that was
studying literature and discussing it. Fortunately I always had
good teachers who conducted all their classes only in German and
it was mostly just talking and listening, with the discussions
focusing on what we were reading. That´s when my fluency really
took off. And that went on for another 2-3 years. And I didn`t
have to have a job at the time. But, if I look back and count up
the hours and the years spent at it, it was actually quite a
lot, so I appreciate the time and work that really went into it.
I think it´s easy to forget how much time and effort went into
learning a language once you pass a point, but it`s no easy job.
That is very true.
And for older immigrant populations, I can see how acquiring a
new language presents a real challenge.
#Post#: 13798--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spanish speaker needed...Another reason California is going
off the rails....
By: Irena Date: March 29, 2019, 10:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=SHL link=topic=935.msg13776#msg13776
date=1553829503]
Alharacas is correct in saying that we often forget the degree
of effort, work and time it takes to acquire skills in a foreign
language. I think it is surprisingly underestimated, which is
why I am always suspicious of people selling „learn a language
quick“ courses. It just doesn`t work that way. It´s also why I
am skeptical of polyglots claiming to have special methods. Even
if they really are polyglots, whatever worked for them is not
likely to work for the average person.
[/quote]
I share your skepticism. Polyglots you see on the Internet
(1) grossly exaggerate their skill level and/or
(2) are extremely talented and/or
(3) treat language learning as a full time job (in some cases,
with overtime).
If you're honest, are stuck with a relatively ordinary human
brain (at least for language-learning purposes), and don't have
40+ hours a week to spend on languages, then your chances of
ever becoming "fluent" in ten languages are approximately
non-existent.
#Post#: 13800--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spanish speaker needed...Another reason California is going
off the rails....
By: Truman Overby Date: March 29, 2019, 11:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=SHL link=topic=935.msg13768#msg13768
date=1553817394]
I suppose this is our way of trying to be helpful to immigrants?
They never used to do this. Wow. What`s happening with all this?
It´s like a language revolution. You can already take your test
for a drivers license in about 6 different languages, Spanish
for sure, Tagalog, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, and maybe they
added Arabic too. I have to wonder what the point of all this
is....
[/quote]
This is what you voted for, Steve. This is what the Democrat
party wants for all of the US -- an eradication of English, open
borders, and no common culture or shared heritage. Own it,
buddy.
#Post#: 13801--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spanish speaker needed...Another reason California is going
off the rails....
By: Irena Date: March 29, 2019, 11:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Beard Brain link=topic=935.msg13800#msg13800
date=1553876849]
an eradication of English
[/quote]
Bwahahahaha! Eradication of English!!! The whole world is
learning English, Jerry. Come over to the Czech Republic, and
tell all the Czechs who are desperately trying to improve their
English (mostly in order to talk to other non-native English
speakers) that English is being "eradicated."
#Post#: 13803--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spanish speaker needed...Another reason California is going
off the rails....
By: SHL Date: March 29, 2019, 12:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Irena link=topic=935.msg13801#msg13801
date=1553877294]
[quote author=Beard Brain link=topic=935.msg13800#msg13800
date=1553876849]
an eradication of English
[/quote]
Bwahahahaha! Eradication of English!!! The whole world is
learning English, Jerry. Come over to the Czech Republic, and
tell all the Czechs who are desperately trying to improve their
English (mostly in order to talk to other non-native English
speakers) that English is being "eradicated."
[/quote]
Well said Irena,
As to the other points about polyglots, I totally agree. :)
#Post#: 13807--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spanish speaker needed...Another reason California is going
off the rails....
By: Truman Overby Date: March 29, 2019, 12:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Irena link=topic=935.msg13801#msg13801
date=1553877294]
[quote author=Beard Brain link=topic=935.msg13800#msg13800
date=1553876849]
an eradication of English
[/quote]
Bwahahahaha! Eradication of English!!! The whole world is
learning English, Jerry. Come over to the Czech Republic, and
tell all the Czechs who are desperately trying to improve their
English (mostly in order to talk to other non-native English
speakers) that English is being "eradicated."
[/quote]
I thought that it was clear the I meant the eradication of
English IN THE USA. From my post: This is what the Democrat
party wants for all of the US -- an eradication of English,"
Bwahahahaha! to you.
#Post#: 13808--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spanish speaker needed...Another reason California is going
off the rails....
By: Irena Date: March 29, 2019, 1:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Beard Brain link=topic=935.msg13807#msg13807
date=1553882364]
[quote author=Irena link=topic=935.msg13801#msg13801
date=1553877294]
[quote author=Beard Brain link=topic=935.msg13800#msg13800
date=1553876849]
an eradication of English
[/quote]
Bwahahahaha! Eradication of English!!! The whole world is
learning English, Jerry. Come over to the Czech Republic, and
tell all the Czechs who are desperately trying to improve their
English (mostly in order to talk to other non-native English
speakers) that English is being "eradicated."
[/quote]
I thought that it was clear the I meant the eradication of
English IN THE USA. From my post: This is what the Democrat
party wants for all of the US -- an eradication of English,"
Bwahahahaha! to you.
[/quote]
Jerry, trust me, English is in no danger of being eradicated in
the United States. Oh, it could happen in 500 years or what have
you. I can't look that far into the future. In the foreseeable
future, though, it might become a tiny bit less difficult to
live in the United States without speaking English. A teeny,
tiny bit. Maybe. Or not.
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