DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Even Greener Pastures
HTML https://evengreener.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Questions about the Use of Language
*****************************************************
#Post#: 13135--------------------------------------------------
Does off of sound a bit off to you?
By: Nikola Date: March 6, 2019, 4:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to know just how bad it is to use "off of" where just
"off" would be sufficient. I've read a few articles about this,
some people say it's simply wrong and some say it's perfectly
fine. It's definitely not "nice" English, as far as I'm aware.
Here's an article that provides a brief summary of its use in
the past and how some dictionaries see it:
HTML https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2009/12/is-off-of-so-awful.html
The number of google matches was significantly higher for just
"off" when I tried looking up various sentences. However, the
"off of" variant still seemed frequent enough to be considered
widely used.
In this article here
HTML https://motivatedgrammar.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/on-off-of/,<br
/>the author claims that in the following cases, removing the "o
f"
would make the following sentences noticeably worse:
(5a) It’s a way of profiting off of something you expect
to drop in value. (I'm guessing using "from" instead would solve
this problem?)
(5b) My new invention will knock the socks off of the scientific
community.
(5c) I broke your statue by knocking the top off of it.
What do native speakers here think?
Did the child fall off a horse or off of a horse?
Do you pull the car off or off of the road?
Feel free to add more examples and tell me what you would or
wouldn't say.
#Post#: 13160--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does off of sound a bit off to you?
By: SuKi Date: March 7, 2019, 6:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Other than in a rendition of the Stones' 'Get Off Of My Cloud'
(artistic licence) I'd never use any those phrases - 'off of'
doesn't exist in BrE.
I actually think it's quite sensible, though. If the opposite of
IN/INTO is OUT OF (e.g. get in/into a car: get out of a car), it
would seem reasonable for the opposite of ON/ON TO to be OFF OF
(e.g. get on/onto a horse: get off of a horse). Perfectly
logical.
In answer to your question, it doesn't sound "off" to me, or
wrong, or 'not nice' - it just sounds American. It's just one of
those things that Americans say but Brits don't.
#Post#: 13161--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does off of sound a bit off to you?
By: Susan Date: March 7, 2019, 6:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
In looking at the examples, I think I avoid saying ¨off of a
....¨. It´s just awkward like saying ¨offava.¨ I would say
¨The child fell off a horse.¨ I think I also sometimes avoid
¨off of the...¨ I am more likely to say ¨pull the car off the
road.¨
However, I agree with the person about (5a) and (5c). Those
need the ¨of.¨ I am trying to think of other examples but I
suspect I omit the ¨of¨ before ¨a¨ and ¨the¨and use it in other
cases such as ¨off of my...¨ ¨off of their...¨ I have no idea
why I it sounds right to me to say ¨The child fell off a horse¨
but also to say ¨I fell off of my horse¨ pr ¨I fell off a
horse.¨ None of them sound illiterate to me though.
#Post#: 13163--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does off of sound a bit off to you?
By: Truman Overby Date: March 7, 2019, 8:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This construction is not at all common in AmE. I can't recall
ever hearing it. If I did, it was from someone not very
educated.
I can't say that it's American English. It's simply incorrect.
Just as many things are said by many native speakers of all
languages.
#Post#: 13165--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does off of sound a bit off to you?
By: Sudeep Date: March 7, 2019, 11:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
So what I got from comments above is that this "off of" is not
common in BrEng and as Jerry said not in AmEng as well, right?
But as to a non native ear, it sounds good and if I only go for
"off" it sounds a bit odd maybe because I have seen "of"
followed by "off" more time than only a lonely "off".
But can anyone please confirm that what's the correct usage, I
mean whether this "off of" could cost someone their marks in
IELTS or any such exams where they look for every detail?
#Post#: 13169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does off of sound a bit off to you?
By: SuKi Date: March 8, 2019, 2:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@Sunshine asked: But can anyone please confirm that what's the
correct usage, I mean whether this "off of" could cost someone
their marks in IELTS or any such exams where they look for every
detail?
1. But can anyone please confirm what the correct usage is?
In BrE, 'off' is the correct usage. There is no doubt about
this: 'off of' doesn't exist as a combination of words in BrE.
In AmE, there appears to be a conflict. GTTM has never heard
'off of' and says that it is incorrect. Meanwhile, Susan seems
to suggest that 'off of' is standard, and that the 'of' is only
omitted for the sake of euphony when the next word is 'a', for
example. You'll need to wait for a few more AmE speakers to give
their view.
2. Could this "off of" cost someone their marks in IELTS or any
such exams where they look for every detail?
I don't think you'd lose marks in IELTS for a minor issue such
as this. In Cambridge exams, we generally allow Americanisms,
anyway. But, as there still seems to be some doubt about how
acceptable it is even for AmE speakers (in some cases, according
to Susan, and in all cases, according to Gef), it's probably
better to avoid it.
#Post#: 13170--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does off of sound a bit off to you?
By: Nikola Date: March 8, 2019, 3:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your comments everyone.
@SuKi
American vs British... It hadn't occurred to me that it could be
so simple.
As to the "off of" combination not existing in BrE, are we
talking about the cases I described above or using them together
in general? Because if the verb the off is part of becomes a
noun and the "of" is possessive rather than related to place, it
should be ok, right?
We talked about the kick-off of the new project.
He survived the cutting off of his hand.
@Susan
Thanks, I didn't realise the article mattered. So it doesn't
work with "a" or "the" but works with "my". I'm glad you said
those sentences didn't sound illiterate to you. This is what I
suspected, after reading that even intelligent, educated people
used "off of".
@Gef
It's probably not used where you live. Different areas within
the U.S. seem to have different ways of saying things, to the
extent you could almost question someone's sanity, by the sounds
of it :)
Here's an example from one of the articles I mentioned:
"I’ve mentioned before that, being from Pittsburgh, I am
perfectly content to say The car needs washed instead of The car
needs to be washed. Within my dialect, to be is often
superfluous, and there are some sentences that I find greatly
improved by omitting it."
The author admits that people from elsewhere would think he
sounded crazy. On the other hand, if he added "to be" it
wouldn't sound as good to people in his area.
@Sunshine
You're as confused as I was :)
#Post#: 13171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does off of sound a bit off to you?
By: Susan Date: March 8, 2019, 3:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/101683/difference-between-get-off-of-and-off
I thought the part highlighted on the page was especially
interesting. It remarks about how common ¨off of¨ is in print
in American writing and editorial practices.
#Post#: 13173--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does off of sound a bit off to you?
By: Irena Date: March 8, 2019, 5:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Gef the Talking Mongoose
link=topic=892.msg13163#msg13163 date=1552011756]
This construction is not at all common in AmE. I can't recall
ever hearing it. If I did, it was from someone not very
educated.
I can't say that it's American English. It's simply incorrect.
Just as many things are said by many native speakers of all
languages.
[/quote]
What?! I see that construction all the time. And I heard it
non-stop when I lived in the States. I do my best not to use it,
but having heard it so many times...
Anyway, I just plugged "off of" (with quotes) into Google. I got
241,000,000 hits. That's about a quarter of a billion. So, I'd
say it's pretty common.
#Post#: 13174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Does off of sound a bit off to you?
By: Nikola Date: March 8, 2019, 5:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@Irena
I try to avoid searching individual phrases without context,
even with quotation marks, because the results can be very
misleading. In this case, your results will have included the
examples I mentioned in my previous comment (the kick-off
of...), language forums where people either ask about it or
complain about it, cases where there's a comma or another
punctuation mark between the "off" and "of" (I got told off. Of
course I was surprised), and last but not least many websites
that mention the Rolling Stones :)
I agree that it still seems to be very common, though.
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page