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#Post#: 12935--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Nikola Date: February 26, 2019, 3:54 am
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Thanks Susan.
@Erik
I always find it strange when someone asks me to get something
out of their bag or coat pocket for them. Makes me feel slightly
uncomfortable.
#Post#: 12937--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: SuKi Date: February 26, 2019, 5:48 am
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Nikola asked 'So if Neal asked you, SuKi and Susan, "where's
your pocketbook?" (like this, without any context), would you
not have the slightest idea what he meant?'
...
I would be confused. 'Pocketbook' suggests a small notebook for
writing in. I'd probably presume it was some form of nifty new
tech device that I hadn't heard of - Notebook, MacBook, that
kind of thing. I would not think "Book = bag".
There again, 'purse' would also confuse. As you know, 'purse'
has a different meaning outside N. America. In BrE, a purse
isn't a bag: a purse is just for money. It's small enough to
hold in the palm of your hand, and has a zip or a clasp on the
top. This is what distinguishes it from a wallet, which opens
like a book (I wonder if that's where the whole 'pocketbook'
idea comes from?).
If Neal were to ask me where my purse was, I'd probably realise
that he meant 'handbag', as we are used to hearing about women's
'purses' from American media. 'Pocketbook' is less well-known,
so that would almost definitely throw anyone not from the US.
So if he is considering retraining as a mugger on the mean
streets of London, he'd better brush up on the local lingo ;)
#Post#: 12938--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Nikola Date: February 26, 2019, 5:55 am
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Thanks SuKi.
I don't think he is but he might write a novel about it.
#Post#: 12940--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Truman Overby Date: February 26, 2019, 7:46 am
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I'm speculating that anyone born after 1975 in the US wouldn't
refer to or know a purse or a handbag as a pocketbook. My
mother, who was born in 1939, used the term pocketbook in the
1960s. She doesn't use that term now and I can't remember the
last time I heard it anywhere. It might be more common in the
south of the US. But that's just a guess.
I think purse is the commonest term to use in speech.
#Post#: 12941--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Kseniia Date: February 26, 2019, 9:14 am
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Oh, your discussion on pocketbooks/purses reminds me of my
childhood trauma. When I was 13 or 14, I listened to "Panic! At
The Disco" and after their "Build God, Then We'll Talk"
(
HTML https://youtu.be/cnJZTXF4SmQ?t=0)
I decided that "purse" was a
dirty word because for the line "She spilled her purse and her
bag, and held a purse of a different kind" in the Russian
translation there was a note, "sexual innuendo". So I decided to
stay on the safe side and never to say "purse" at all, just in
case :)
Anyway, here's my take on Chinese bag names. Basically, in
Chinese, there's a 包(bāo)/袋(dài) dichotomy,
so here goes:
1. 包包 (bāobāo)
2. 手袋 (shǒudài; 手 = hand)
3. 背包 (bèibāo; 背 = back) or
书包 (shūbāo; 书 = book) for
schoolbags (they are a bit different, though; in Russian the
latter would be ранец)
4. Not sure about this one, but I'd say
运动背包 (yùndòng bèibāo).
Technically it means sport rucksack, but I think it's possible
to use it to say "sport bag". Maybe I'm wrong (hopefully someone
will be able to correct me)
5. 袋子 (dàizi) - this is the most common term, I
think. I'm pretty lazy so I usually call 5-10 袋子
even though I know that sometimes it's not exactly right (shame
on me!)
6. 袋子 (dàizi)
7. I think the right term is 垃圾袋 (lèsèdài)
but in Walmart it's 黑色塑料袋 on
price tags (hēisè sùliàodài; lit. black-coloured plastic
bag), and as I said, I usually just say 袋子.
8. 塑料袋 (sùliàodài; 塑料 =
plastic)
9. 纸袋 (zhǐdài; 纸 = paper)
10. 纸袋 (zhǐdài)
#Post#: 12945--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: SHL Date: February 26, 2019, 11:23 am
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While people out here understand pocketbook, I`d classify it as
old-fashioned and regional. No one uses the word, unless they
are from out-of-state. In the mid to West Coast I might want to
amend what I said, earlier. Number 1 is what we used to call a
purse and 2 the wallet or women`s wallet Sounds like pocketbook
is East Coast, or Northeast Coast to me. I remember hearing
„She`ll hit you with her purse“ so it had to be the big bag
women carried with the straps. You don`t hit people with a
wallet. And number 3, again, is a carry on bag for a plane. I
have two of those I take to Europe. One I check in and one I
carry on board. It looks like a piece of luggage to me.
#Post#: 12950--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Nikola Date: February 26, 2019, 4:04 pm
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@Kseniia
Bāo? I don't know how important the line above the a is or
whether there's any connection or not but I immediately thought
of these:
[img width=300
height=300]
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Char_siu_bao.jpg/1200px-Char_siu_bao.jpg[/img]
They do look like tiny bags.
ранец? That is so funny. We have
the word ranec. It's a type of sack, one that Hloupý Honza
(Stupid John), the famous Czech fairy tale character, would
carry with him while on a quest for a beautiful princess. It was
just folded fabric attached to a stick and it had buchty
(traditional sweet pastry) in it. It's not really used in this
context anymore, other than in fairy tales. It has become a
colloquialism meaning "lots of money".
#Post#: 12961--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Kseniia Date: February 27, 2019, 4:44 am
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Nikola, the line above the a is pretty important, it's one of
the ways to denote the first tone in pinyin. For example,
雹暴 (báobào; 2nd tone + 4th tone) would mean
"hailstorm". And yes, your intuition is perfect: in the word
bāozi the first character is indeed 包 (so,
包子). Makes total sense, doesn't it? :)
Hah, well, in Russia small schoolchildren still wear
ранцы. It's even more common in
China. As I said, they're a bit different from rucksacks:
they're usually a little smaller and they're made of more firm
material so they hold their shape. I wouldn't mind having one
with buchty in it, though :) As for Hloupý Honza, is he a
positive character? I suppose, since now ranec means "lots of
money", he probably gets rich in the end of most tales, am I
right?
#Post#: 12964--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Nikola Date: February 27, 2019, 5:52 am
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@Kseniia
So bāozi is what you call the buns? And it consists of one
character from No. 1 bāobāo and one from No. 5 dàizi.
So half a bag and half another bag make a bun?
Oh I see, we call the school bag aktovka, which is also the word
for a briefcase. Comparing Slavic languages is like playing
associations, don't you think?
Yes, Hloupý Honza is a positive character. It usually turns out
he's not stupid at all and he wins the princess and half a
kingdom.
#Post#: 12966--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Coligno Date: February 27, 2019, 6:57 am
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In Italian the basic words are borsa and sacco.
1. borsa
2. borsetta (I think)
3. zaino
4. borsa
5. sporta (I always assumed this word was derived from the verb
portare = "to carry", but I've just checked and apparently it
actually comes ultimately from Greek
σπυρίς = "basket"; the dictionary
also says that it's a large bag, but I've only ever heard it
used for this kind of bag)
6. shopper seems to be the current trendy name for these, though
I've also seen/heard it used for No. 5 (is the word shopper used
in this sense in English these days? I've never heard it myself,
and it wouldn't be unheard of for made-up "English" words to be
used in Italian); both 5 and 6 could also be called borsa (di
plastica), which is what I generally call them.
7. sacco (dell'immondizia)
8. sacchetto (di plastica)
9. & 10. sacchetto (di carta)
There's also the word tracolla which can be used for a bag with
a shoulder strap; and sacca, but I haven't figured out yet
exactly what kind of bag it is and how it's different from a
sacco.
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