DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Even Greener Pastures
HTML https://evengreener.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Questions about the Use of Language
*****************************************************
#Post#: 12885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Coligno Date: February 25, 2019, 12:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree with SuKi that they're all "bag" in English, but it's
possible to be more specific if necessary, so 1 & 2 "handbag", 3
"rucksack", 4 I think there's a more specific name for this one
too, but it escapes me, 5 & 8 "plastic bag", 6 might be a
"carrier bag", but I can't really remember (I don't speak
English much these days), 7 "bin bag", 9 & 10 "paper bag", and
your bonus picture is a "sack" (I don't think it would ever be
called a "bag").
In Irish, they're all mála, including the sack, but it's also
possible to be more specific: 1 & 2 mála láimhe ("bag of-hand"),
3 mála droma ("bag of-back"), 5 & 8 mála plaisteach ("bag
plastic"), 6 mála siopadóireachta ("bag of-shopping"), 7 mála
bruscair ("bag of-rubbish"), 9 & 10 mála páipéir ("bag
of-paper"), and just mála.
This talk of marsupials reminds me of an amusing Irish simile:
Chomh bródúil le cat a mbeadh póca air = "As proud as a cat with
a pocket".
#Post#: 12896--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: SuKi Date: February 25, 2019, 4:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I wonder.. is the Irish 'mála' and the Portuguese 'mala' just
one of those random coincidences of language? Or is there a
connection?
#Post#: 12902--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Coligno Date: February 25, 2019, 6:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
SuKi, no, it's not a coincidence, they both come from Old French
male, in the case of Irish either directly from Norman French or
via Middle English. That's also the origin of the English word
mail.
#Post#: 12908--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: SuKi Date: February 25, 2019, 8:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, Coligno. That makes sense. A reassuringly simple
explanation.
#Post#: 12914--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Susan Date: February 25, 2019, 11:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree with SHL. In the U.S. there are regionalisms. Although
Kansas is in the middle of the U.S., I guess language-wise we
may be closer to California than to New York. No one calls the
bags that women constantly carry their personal belongings in
¨pocketbooks¨ here, we call them ¨purses¨ or occasionally ¨hand
bags.¨ And purses definitely are not just the tiny ones-- they
can be huge bags but if they are for women to carry around their
stuff in, here they are ¨purses.¨ Other than the term ¨hand
bags¨ being less common than ¨purses¨, I´d say my answers would
be the same as SHLs.
#Post#: 12918--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Nikola Date: February 25, 2019, 12:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
So if Neal asked you, SuKi and Susan, "where's your pocketbook?"
(like this, without any context), would you not have the
slightest idea what he meant?
It's always interesting to see how different languages
categorise things differently, which means learners have to free
themselves from their way of categorising in their native
language, in order to fully accept the target language. If a
Russian learner of Czech learns that a large shopping bag is
called taška, they might assume that a small handbag would
also be taška, but it's not.
Looking at the examples, I can see a match between German and
Russian (I am counting the second part of the word in German). A
backpack and a bin bag (garbage bag, to be inclusive) have a
special term that differs from the rest, pictures No. 1, 2 and 4
are all сумка/-tasche and No. 5,
8, 9 and 10 are all пакет/-tüte,
although in Russian, No. 7 can also be called
пакет.
And then English and Irish, as we say in Czech, "throw them all
in one bag" if they feel like it. Of course, they also have
individual terms for them but you won't make a mistake calling
any of the above a bag. I'm guessing this applies to the U.S. as
well? Or would you never refer to a purse (with a strap) as bag?
Other languages differ a lot in the way they perceive different
types of bags, although there is one thing the majority of them
seem to have in common - having a unique term for a backpack.
#Post#: 12920--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Susan Date: February 25, 2019, 1:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I would have a general idea of what he is talking about, and
probably hold up my purse and say, ¨I have it right here, ¨but I
would be unclear if he meant my purse or the wallet within it.
I have a wallet that is larger than men´s and includes a
checkbook, and I would have been inclined to think that is what
he was talking about, but from his, answer, I suspect his
¨pocketbook¨ is the whole bag, not the large wallet within it.
#Post#: 12923--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: NealC Date: February 25, 2019, 3:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The word is definitely from my mom's side of the family, and
that side has a long history in the US. My mother's mother was
a source of all sorts of old songs, sayings and archaic words.
From the internet, on "Pocketbook":
HTML https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/9112/why-is-a-womans-purse-called-a-pocketbook
#Post#: 12924--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: NealC Date: February 25, 2019, 3:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The thing inside was definitely the 'purse', but there was
enough confusion about the whole thing where I can remember
being asked to get my mom's purse, and showing up with the
pocketbook, and vice versa. After a while I figured out it was
safest to bring the whole thing.
The big thing about pocketbooks and purses is they are
sacrosanct. As a male I would not think to go into any woman's
pocketbook/purse, it would probably be worth my hand. Not
comfortable with it even if they asked me to do it. Is this
universal or a US thing?
#Post#: 12926--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bags
By: Allie Date: February 25, 2019, 3:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I think I can say I am a calm, controlled and even reserved
person.
But touch my bag and you’re dead!
*****************************************************
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page