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#Post#: 11902--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: Truman Overby Date: January 31, 2019, 10:20 am
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Speaking of Rikers, there was a plane crash there in 1959 or so.
Prisoners rushed to help and saved lives. The ones who did this
were let out of jail as a reward. It's on YouTube if you're
interested.
#Post#: 11912--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: NealC Date: January 31, 2019, 1:45 pm
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Two big things are they do not need "probable cause" and they do
not need search warrants. If you jump bail they can use any
means necessary to hunt you down. I don't think that really
includes violence (unless you resist).
In the movie "The Fugitive" Federal Marshalls are after an
escaped convict. In this case since the convict committed a
violent crime the Marshalls were allowed to consider him "armed
and dangerous" at all times. Basically shoot first and ask
questions later.
#Post#: 11914--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: Irena Date: January 31, 2019, 2:38 pm
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[quote author=NealC link=topic=804.msg11912#msg11912
date=1548963957]
Two big things are they do not need "probable cause" and they do
not need search warrants. If you jump bail they can use any
means necessary to hunt you down. I don't think that really
includes violence (unless you resist).
[/quote]
Hmm... And what happens in mistaken identity cases? Suppose
someone jumped bail, and suppose for whatever reason, they
(incorrectly) thought you were their guy. So they can just break
into your house without a warrant? And when it turns out they
were wrong, then what? Are they criminally responsible?
#Post#: 11916--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: Truman Overby Date: January 31, 2019, 3:55 pm
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[quote author=Irena link=topic=804.msg11914#msg11914
date=1548967093]
[quote author=NealC link=topic=804.msg11912#msg11912
date=1548963957]
Two big things are they do not need "probable cause" and they do
not need search warrants. If you jump bail they can use any
means necessary to hunt you down. I don't think that really
includes violence (unless you resist).
[/quote]
Hmm... And what happens in mistaken identity cases? Suppose
someone jumped bail, and suppose for whatever reason, they
(incorrectly) thought you were their guy. So they can just break
into your house without a warrant? And when it turns out they
were wrong, then what? Are they criminally responsible?
[/quote]
This happens with the police quite frequently, Irena. It's a
part of police work. I would seriously doubt that bounty hunters
are less diligent about finding the right guy than the police
are. They're probably more careful since they aren't working
under the same sorts of time pressures as the cops.
Sure, they can be held criminally responsible, just as the cops
can and are all of the time. They don't have immunity.
They only class of people in the US who enjoy immunity are the
politicians who are at the very top of the food chain. Clintons,
Obama, Kennedys, etc.
#Post#: 11917--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: SHL Date: January 31, 2019, 4:49 pm
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@Ksneiia and Irena,
Each State has a whole body of laws on the books that regulate
bounty hunters (I`m sure they have to be licensed and bonded),
and they can`t just „shoot first and ask questions later.“ It
probably was like that in the Wild West in the 1880s, but not
now. They are certainly not above the law, anymore than the
police are. And bounty hunters who violate the law are subject
to all the criminal and civil penalties like anyone else. (I
kind of agree with Jerry that a form of immunity sort of goes
with positions of high power unfortunately.)
I have no idea how many people jump bail, but I don`t think the
bail bonds business is a big money-maker in the US. Next to my
office there`s a little bailbondsmen`s office, with a cheap neon
sign in red that flashes „Bail Bonds, -24 hour Service“, all
day, but there`s never anyone there. I tried going into their
office once to ask if the mailman had misdelivered a package I
was expecting and their door was locked. Great 24 hour service.
They didn`t look like they were making much money (my office is
5 minutes from the courthouse, which explains why these guys are
all over the place). But, don`t forgetm not everyone charged
with a crime has to post bail. I used to do criminal law about
20 years ago, and I sat through plenty of morning calendars in
court watching other people`s cases. Instead of bail, you
normally ask for and get what we call „OR“ (in cases of minor
crimes, like drunk driving, domestic violence - which are
misdemeanors) „OR“ stands for „Own Recognisance“. That means
they let you go without posting bail, on just your promise to
come to the next court date. So we used to always ask for OR on
smaller cases for everyone with no record and minor offenses. A
lot of people on OR don`t show for their next court date (maybe
1/3 don`t show?) because they are just deadbeats. So, when the
case was called and the defendant was a no show, the Judge would
just say „OR revoked, bench warrant issued, bail set at $5,000.“
That would usually be it, and then he`d go onto the next case.
Just routine. This is just an everyday thing for Judges. They
probably get 20-30 no shows a day and just revoke OR, set a
standard bail and issue a bench warrant. But, our local
sheriff´s office has so many bench warrants to execute, that
they probably have stacks of them, and I personally think they
give them low priority in looking for people. The only time
these guys who don`t show for court get caught is when they are
driving and get pulled over by the cops. The cop runs the
license number and drivers license and if the computer shows the
guy has a bench warrant, then they just take him in.
But, unless someone is on OR or bail, they have to be brought to
court within like 72 hours or something and tried in like 10
days, under their speedy trial rights, unless they waive time,
as we call it (this is all just lawyer jargon of course). If on
OR or bail, they usually do waive time to avoid rushing to
trial.
Glad I don`t do criminal defense anymore. It`s a hard way to
make a living.
I never liked criminal law, because you are pretty much always
on the losing end of the stick and you know it (sorry, but these
guys are usually guilty as sh*t), and you wind up just begging
the DA (prosecutor) for a deal, or a reduced charge, or lighter
sentence so you can go back to your client and say „Guess what a
good deal I got for you! I`m a genius!“ And then you negotiate
more, and it´s just this back and forth game you play. The DA
wants to settle the case and so do you. So, everything is a
compromise. You only try the cases where your guy is factually
innocent and/or the evidence against them is really weak, or
you just get unlucky and you get a DA who is a real a*shole.
Most are not. They are usually young females right out of law
school, with husbands and kids and they are just doing a job.
And they are often nice people.
#Post#: 11921--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: NealC Date: January 31, 2019, 7:06 pm
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Here is a blurb on bounty hunters in the US:
HTML https://people.howstuffworks.com/bounty-hunting1.htm
I forgot extradition, bounty hunters do not need to go thru that
process, their hunt can cross state lines.
A really fun movie about a bounty hunter is "Midnight Run" (not
to be confused with "Midnight Express"!), highly recommended.
In the blurb above they mention a couple of TV "Reality Shows"
about bounty hunters. 'Dog' the Bounty Hunter made a name for
himself by going to Mexico and capturing the rapist heir to the
Max Factor fortune, and embarrassing the FBI in the process:
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jun/20/usa.mexico
The Mexican govt held him for several days on kidnapping
charges! That made Dog a minor celebrity in the US, and he had
a long running TV show.
#Post#: 11923--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: SHL Date: January 31, 2019, 8:31 pm
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[quote author=NealC link=topic=804.msg11921#msg11921
date=1548983195]
Here is a blurb on bounty hunters in the US:
HTML https://people.howstuffworks.com/bounty-hunting1.htm
I forgot extradition, bounty hunters do not need to go thru that
process, their hunt can cross state lines.
A really fun movie about a bounty hunter is "Midnight Run" (not
to be confused with "Midnight Express"!), highly recommended.
In the blurb above they mention a couple of TV "Reality Shows"
about bounty hunters. 'Dog' the Bounty Hunter made a name for
himself by going to Mexico and capturing the rapist heir to the
Max Factor fortune, and embarrassing the FBI in the process:
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jun/20/usa.mexico
The Mexican govt held him for several days on kidnapping
charges! That made Dog a minor celebrity in the US, and he had
a long running TV show.
[/quote]
That´s a pretty old story (2003), but you can`t have people just
going into other countries and kidnapping fugitives. The US
would not be very happy about undercover Mexican bounty hunters
(which I doubt they even have) coming into the US, grabbing
someone, and then sending them back to Mexico without as much as
even consulting the local authorities. Turn the tables and the
problem is obvious.
#Post#: 11926--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: Coligno Date: February 1, 2019, 5:42 am
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An interesting question. I hadn't realised they had different
meanings in the US: in English, Scottish, Irish and Northern
Ireland law they're completely synonymous.
Incidentally, Kseniia, on the subject of prison, have you ever
heard of Jailge? I think you might find this interesting (but if
nothing else, at least you can listen to some Belfast accents --
hopefully you'll be able to understand, because I see that the
automatically generated subtitles can't cope):
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=244&v=0Q0mBBHt8fQ.<br
/>Feargal's (who I was at university with) own father learnt Iri
sh
when he was interned (imprisoned without trial).
#Post#: 11963--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: Kseniia Date: February 2, 2019, 5:08 am
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Coligno, yes, I know the term, I think I first encountered it in
"No Béarla 2" in which Manchán Magan had a conversation with
Jake Mac Siacais about the Jailtacht in Long Kesh. And shortly
afterwards I watched the film "Hunger" with Fassbender (part of
me wishes I hadn't, what happened there was horrifying...).
Haven't read Feargal's book, though, so thank you for the link.
But I think the role of Irish as a tool of resistance in prisons
is not limited to the period of the Troubles. "Ní Síocháin gan
Saoirse" and other messages written on the walls of Kilmainham
Gaol (or Príosún Chill Mhaighneann) come to mind. By the way,
nowadays we even have these short stories in modern Irish
language textbooks for beginners:
[img width=290 height=300]
HTML https://i.ibb.co/rkJNJP9/1.png[/img]
#Post#: 11968--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: NealC Date: February 2, 2019, 10:24 am
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Is Irish literature a field of study for you or are you just
that well read? Damn I am envious.
So much to know, so little time!
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