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DIR Return to: Questions about the Use of Language
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#Post#: 11850--------------------------------------------------
Question for SHL
By: Kseniia Date: January 30, 2019, 12:37 pm
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Hi SHL (hopefully you're reading this), I have a small question
for you. You're a lawyer, so I just thought that you might know
the answer. In American English, do the words "prison" and
"jail" have different meanings? Like, "jail" is a place for
serving a short sentence, and "prison" — for serving a sentence
of longer than a year? I told one person from England about this
distinction and was assured that I was talking nonsense because
the terms are actually interchangeable. So I'm just wondering if
this distinction really exists in AmE and the author of my
textbook didn't make it up.
#Post#: 11851--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: Irena Date: January 30, 2019, 12:40 pm
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I was under the impression that jail is for people awaiting
trial, whereas prison is for people who are serving a sentence.
I think. SHL?
#Post#: 11853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: NealC Date: January 30, 2019, 1:12 pm
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Officially Irena is right, and anyone involved with law
enforcement will use the words that way. In actuality people
throw the two words around interchangeably
#Post#: 11856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: SHL Date: January 30, 2019, 1:51 pm
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@Kesnii:
I think you are on to the right answer. Every US State is
divided into multiple counties (we have something like 58
different countries in California, or 56, I can`t recall at the
moment, but I know it is in the 50-range. San Francisco is both
a County and a City. It might be the only one with that status).
And, every County runs its own jail system. A jail in the US is
NOT synonymous with a prison.
Jails are for what are considered less serious offenses (usually
misdemeanor crimes) that carry a maximum sentence of 12
months.(But in California you automatically get one day taken
off the sentence for good behavior, so a 12 month sentence
usually means a real 6 months incarceration period.)
By contrast, a prison is where the bad guys go, usually the
really bad guys. They are for serious felonies (bank robberies,
murder, drug trafficking and other things. Their inmates serve
longer than one-year sentences, but they have parole boards to
allow early release in most cases (jails don`t have parole). The
State of California runs its own prison system known in
California as the „Department of Corrections.“ It has nothing to
do with jails. Jails are operated by the local County`s
Sheriff`s office.
They are totally different and should never to be confused.
California had a prison overcrowding problem years ago and was
under was under a court order to reduce its prison population.
To remedy the problem, they enacted a law to move some of the
non-violet offenders with longer than 12 month sentences from
prisons to jails. And, they are still doing that to this day.
So, now the local jails are fuller than they used to be. And the
jail is usually right next to the court house for easy access to
court proceedings. All cases start out with the defendant in a
jail, (or on bond) and then at sentencing the person, if
convicted, gets sent to jail or the Department of Corrections
(prison), and the CDC (California Department of Corrections) has
prisons all over the State.
Neal is correct that in the standard vocabulary of Americans, we
often just banter about the words prison and jail as if they
were the same, but they are not and never have been in a true
legal sense.
I can`t speak to the use of the terms in other English speaking
countries, but in the US they are definitely NOT the same thing.
Not by a long shot.
#Post#: 11857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: NealC Date: January 30, 2019, 2:07 pm
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There is also the word "Penitentiary", which usually refers to a
Federal Prison - laws broken on the Federal level. You don't
want to go to the pen.
#Post#: 11859--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: Susan Date: January 30, 2019, 3:48 pm
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Neal, I thought the Federal Prisons have a reputation of being a
little less rough than most state ones. That isn´t the
impression you have had?
Leavenworth KS and Lansing KS are pretty near each other in
location. Leavenworth has the medium security penitentiary (and
two military prisons) and Lansing has a state prison. I had
always heard Leavenworth was the nicer, although it was built in
the late 1800s.
#Post#: 11864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: SHL Date: January 30, 2019, 4:33 pm
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They’re all horrible, although I heard that same thing Susan
mentioned about the feds.
The good O US of A. The highest incarceration rate in the world.
Nothing to be proud of. I wonder if there might be something
wrong with the system in the „Land of the Free“? And
overcrowding in prisons? It’s a scandal.
In Holland the incarceration rate is so low, they ship prisoners
in from Belgium just to fill up the empty spaces. Tells you a
lot about the American mentality.
Neal, is Rikers Island still in operation in NY? Heard it was
like a modern day Alcatraz.
#Post#: 11865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: NealC Date: January 30, 2019, 4:40 pm
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Rikers is New York City's Jail. You don't want to go to Rikers.
I have always heard Federal time was rougher. Perhaps the
facilities are nicer, but as far as I know there is no time off
for good behavior in the Penitentiary, and things are VERY
regimented. But I dont know for sure.
I am sure like everything else, Prison depends on the state.
Some of NY State's Prisons are old, supposedly very cold in
winter but otherwise we are a liberal state and I am sure NY
Prison is better than most of the South. In New York we even
allow "conjugal visits".
And as for the rate of incarceration, that is Clinton's legacy.
#Post#: 11866--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: SHL Date: January 30, 2019, 4:56 pm
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[quote author=NealC link=topic=804.msg11865#msg11865
date=1548888014]
Rikers is New York City's Jail. You don't want to go to Rikers.
I have always heard Federal time was rougher. Perhaps the
facilities are nicer, but as far as I know there is no time off
for good behavior in the Penitentiary, and things are VERY
regimented. But I dont know for sure.
I am sure like everything else, Prison depends on the state.
Some of NY State's Prisons are old, supposedly very cold in
winter but otherwise we are a liberal state and I am sure NY
Prison is better than most of the South. In New York we even
allow "conjugal visits".
And as for the rate of incarceration, that is Clinton's legacy.
[/quote]
That’s interesting Neal. I didn’t know Rikers was just a NYC
jail. I thought it was a NY prison. Plus, it’s really old and I
believe it’s on an island, isn’t it, because the name is Rikers
Island? But, it’s got a reputation thoughout the country as
being pretty bad, like one rivialing Alcatraz.
You’re right about the State prisons probably being more liberal
than the federal ones, at least in the more liberal States
(they’re all bad, but I guess you can say there are degrees of
bad). And, you are right. The prisons in the US South are
outrageously horrible, the worst being Angola State Prison in
Lousiana. I heard it’s run like a old Southern style slave
plantation from 1850. I’m sure it has all the comforts of an old
Soviet style Gulag.
That’s the thing about the US. There’s a veil of silence over
certain bad things here that you don’t talk about.
The rate of incarceration, whoever started it (and I have a
hunch it was really Reagan with his mandatory minimums from the
80s), is something someone should do something about. Prison
reform is needed and the US needs to enter the 21st century,
like Europe.
#Post#: 11868--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question for SHL
By: NealC Date: January 30, 2019, 5:05 pm
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I know Angola, that has a reputation. And of course New York's
Attica.
Rikers is NY City's jail, you can also serve short sentences
there. Has a reputation of being scary and violent. It is an
Island between Long Islands Queens Borough and the Bronx
Borough.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikers_Island
The Mayor wants to close it down, I dont know where he will
build a new Jail but I imagine the land would be very valuable.
Sort of like San Quinten by you. Years ago Oceanfront was where
the poor people lived and you put Jails and Hospitals. New
York's rough "Hell's Kitchen" neighborhood had a lot of
waterfront space.
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