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#Post#: 11462--------------------------------------------------
Superlative without "the"
By: Nikola Date: January 17, 2019, 10:01 am
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I found this quote by Confucius and I'm a bit confused (no pun
intended).
"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection,
which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and
third by experience, which is the bitterest."
The words "noblest" and "easiest" are without "the", followed by
"the bitterest". I'm aware that the article can be omitted in
casual speech or when talking about the same thing at different
times of the day/year for example (change is hardest at the
beginning = change is at its hardest) but the example above
doesn't fit either category. Reflection, imitation and
experience are all uncountable in this particular context. It
seems random to me. Can someone please explain this?
#Post#: 11463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Superlative without "the"
By: Sudeep Date: January 17, 2019, 10:26 am
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Maybe Confucious said it casually or the one who translated it,
did it casually or else why would someone forget "the" for the
first twos and use it for the last!?
#Post#: 11465--------------------------------------------------
Re: Superlative without "the"
By: Truman Overby Date: January 17, 2019, 11:12 am
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I think 'the' serves to emphasize bitterest as the superlative.
I suppose that it's not needed, strictly speaking, but it sounds
completely natural to me. I would never have noticed it as an
odd bit of grammar.
But as Confucius says: "Native speaker not always keen on
explaining grammar"
#Post#: 11466--------------------------------------------------
Re: Superlative without "the"
By: NealC Date: January 17, 2019, 11:19 am
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It is random.
In writing all three should have 'the', but in casual speech
people sometimes leave it out. I cannot describe a rule for it,
in some cases you must have 'the' or else it sounds funny. In
the US we always call it 'the University' 'the Hospital' while
in the UK they leave the article out.
#Post#: 11467--------------------------------------------------
Re: Superlative without "the"
By: Alharacas Date: January 17, 2019, 11:53 am
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Have a look at this, Nikola:
HTML https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/47047/superlative-without-the
(Ignore what they say about the question having been answered
already, scroll down to (9), where they explain about
predicative vs. attributive use of adjectives.)
Stackexchange almost always delivers. :)
#Post#: 11469--------------------------------------------------
Re: Superlative without "the"
By: SHL Date: January 17, 2019, 2:20 pm
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I agree with Jerry. While „the“ could have been left out from
„bitterest“, for some reason putting the „the“ in sounds better
to me. I think it`s because it draws emphasis to „bitterest“ and
seems to contrast it in that way better with the first two.
It´s sort of like saying, „this one is good, the next one
better, but this last one is THE absolute best of them all.“
For some reason you can`t say „this one is the good...“
But, you could say, „this one is the good one, the next the
better one and the last best, or the best.“
I can`t explain it as I`m far from an English grammar guru. It´s
just what sounds right, which I know is a poor answer.
#Post#: 11470--------------------------------------------------
Re: Superlative without "the"
By: Nikola Date: January 17, 2019, 3:03 pm
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@Alharacas
Thank you so much, that's really helpful. Once again, you tamed
the wild google. So Stackexchange is good for language dilemmas?
Thank you all for explaining what sounds natural to you. I think
that the combination of your comments and proper terms and rules
Alharacas found, made it a lot clearer. There is a rule and in
this case it says you can choose. The person who translated this
quote chose to omit the definite article in the first two cases,
and use it at the end to emphasize the point.
Oh and look, Truman and SHL agreed with each other. What a great
day.
#Post#: 11473--------------------------------------------------
Re: Superlative without "the"
By: Alharacas Date: January 17, 2019, 3:28 pm
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Glad you found the link useful, Nikola.
Yes, Stackexchange is great, also for questions about German
(explanations in English). Plus - and I cannot emphasize enough
how extraordinary this is - there are rarely, if ever any
mistakes in their German example sentences. (There are lots of
other sites where the grammar explanations are often just as
good, but then they give a few examples, and these usually vary
from strangely un-idiomatic to downright wrong, if not
completely nonsensical.)
#Post#: 11478--------------------------------------------------
Re: Superlative without "the"
By: SHL Date: January 17, 2019, 11:11 pm
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[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=777.msg11473#msg11473
date=1547760484]
Glad you found the link useful, Nikola.
Yes, Stackexchange is great, also for questions about German
(explanations in English). Plus - and I cannot emphasize enough
how extraordinary this is - there are rarely, if ever any
mistakes in their German example sentences. (There are lots of
other sites where the grammar explanations are often just as
good, but then they give a few examples, and these usually vary
from strangely un-idiomatic to downright wrong, if not
completely nonsensical.)
[/quote]
Thanks, Alharacas, for that great link to Stackexchange. It is
good and a lot of fun. I joined the German site and they really
do give good answers.
I`ve also used Linguee a lot, but I think it`s user-contributed
and not done by professional translators? And, Linguee can be
used for just about any language. You just open up a box and
pick the language you want, but I think they are all from one
language into English only? Not sure about that, but some of
their English translations are really pretty weird sounding.
I`ve found myself reading the English translation of something
three times and asking myself, „what in the world is all this
supposed to mean?“
Like you said, some other sites give nonsensical, wrong or just
weird translations. But, Stackexchange is good.
#Post#: 11481--------------------------------------------------
Re: Superlative without "the"
By: NealC Date: January 17, 2019, 11:33 pm
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If I may digress to speaking about "Alice" for a moment.
I was thinking about why an English speaker would forget the
rule about using 'an' instead of 'a' as the article before a
word beginning with a vowel. In English it is a rather magical
moment to have such a cut and dried rule, with no exceptions.
Almost unheard of!
The answer lies in accents, dialects, and patterns of speech.
There is a whole population of English speakers in the US that
pronounce a or an as just 'uh'. It is not the difference
between a airplane or an airplane, they pronounce either one as
'uh'. Remember she also argued that 'the' is always pronounced
'thuh', and never 'thee'. It is the same with the whole use of
the word the. Some accents/dialects just swallow the word
completely.
I think in the written example above it was done for emphasis,
but it is an insight to some people who 'teach' a language that
have no academic qualifications. In the end they are only
communicating how they and their friends speak the language.
I don't think that is such a good idea.
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