DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Even Greener Pastures
HTML https://evengreener.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Questions about the Use of Language
*****************************************************
#Post#: 10390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pronunciation of "issue"
By: Kseniia Date: December 17, 2018, 9:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Not to lower the tone but is it the same kind of dichotomy as
with [ˈsɛkʃʊəl] /
[ˈsɛksjʊəl]? I know that Stephen Fry, for
example (and I'm no specialist of course but I was told that he
speaks in RP), says ['ɪsjuː] and
[ˈsɛksjʊəl] when he's not in character. But
I've noticed that he and some other actors change the way they
pronounce these words in some cases. For example, in this comedy
sketch —
HTML https://youtu.be/Xmb1DT62FVc
— it's Fry (the principal) who says
[ˈsɛkʃʊəl] and Laurie (the parent) who
says [ˈsɛksjʊəl]. Same with "issue" but I
can't find an example on Youtube right now. Ah, and with
"assurance" (same video, 5:15). Maybe people see it as a social
marker or something?
#Post#: 10393--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pronunciation of "issue"
By: NealC Date: December 17, 2018, 9:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The pronunciation can be a social marker, sort of a shorthand to
build a character.
What is RP exactly?
Nice to see you posting Kseniia :-)
#Post#: 10396--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pronunciation of "issue"
By: Alharacas Date: December 17, 2018, 10:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
@Neal
Quote from wikipedia:
"Received Pronunciation (RP) is an accent of Standard English in
the United Kingdom and is defined in the Concise Oxford English
Dictionary as "the standard accent of English as spoken in the
south of England", although it can be heard from native speakers
throughout England and Wales. Peter Trudgill estimated in 1974
that 3 per cent of people in Britain were RP speakers [...]."
"Formerly, colloquially called "the King's English" RP enjoys
high social prestige in Britain, being thought of as the accent
of those with power, money, and influence, though it may be
perceived negatively by some as being associated with undeserved
privilege."
Oh, thanks for making me look it up, Neal! Because then there's
this, under "History":
"RP is often believed to be based on the accents of southern
England, but it actually has most in common with the Early
Modern English dialects of the East Midlands. This was the most
populated and most prosperous area of England during the 14th
and 15th centuries. By the end of the 15th century, "Standard
English" was established in the City of London."
I'd always thought it was much more recent, kind of invented by
the BBC.
#Post#: 10402--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pronunciation of "issue"
By: Coligno Date: December 18, 2018, 3:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Kseniia's right, of course, "issue" isn't an isolated example of
this phenomenon, it's just one of a group of words which
originally contained the combination /s/ + [ju] which has
largely been simplified to [ʃu]. But the change isn't
complete yet, which is why both versions can still be heard for
some words, the older one persisting in RP (otherwise known as
"a posh accent") which is in some ways more conservative. There
are words in which the change seems to have happened longer ago,
for example I couldn't imagine anyone saying [sjʊgə]
for "sugar", and likewise other words have resisted the change
and still have [sj], e.g. "assume". A similar thing can be seen
(or heard) with [t] + [ju] and [d] + [ju].
#Post#: 10403--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pronunciation of "issue"
By: Coligno Date: December 18, 2018, 4:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=698.msg10378#msg10378
date=1545084988]
She was British, but desperately trying to sound posh and
conceal her real accent.
[/quote]
It happens quite a lot, and it's amusing when it goes wrong. In
northern England (for anyone who doesn't know, northern English
accents are often looked down upon by southerners) there's no
distinction between /ʌ/ and /ʊ/, so "luck" and "look"
are both pronounced /lʊk/ (like "look"), and sometimes
northerners trying to sound posh will hypercorrect and replace
every /ʊ/ with /ʌ/, and therefore pronounce "look" as
"luck". There was a UK politician called John Prescott in the
early 2000's who used to do this a lot. He was from Hull, which
has quite a distinctive accent but very northern. As he worked
his way up the ranks in government, his accent kept changing: he
gradually lost his northern accent but his new accent was full
of such hypercorrection and sounded a bit daft.
#Post#: 10404--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pronunciation of "issue"
By: Coligno Date: December 18, 2018, 4:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=SHL link=topic=698.msg10386#msg10386
date=1545095215]
The Brits sound a bit different and I`m sure Coligno is correct
in his comments about the ss sound not having as heavy a sch
sound to it, I suppose?
[/quote]
It's not what I actually said, but thanks for agreeing with me
anyway.
#Post#: 10406--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pronunciation of "issue"
By: Coligno Date: December 18, 2018, 4:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=698.msg10396#msg10396
date=1545108061]
Oh, thanks for making me look it up, Neal! Because then there's
this, under "History":
"RP is often believed to be based on the accents of southern
England, but it actually has most in common with the Early
Modern English dialects of the East Midlands. This was the most
populated and most prosperous area of England during the 14th
and 15th centuries. By the end of the 15th century, "Standard
English" was established in the City of London."
I'd always thought it was much more recent, kind of invented by
the BBC.
[/quote]
I think whoever wrote this might be getting a bit confused. What
is being described is the modern standard English of England,
not RP, which is just one accent of standard English English. RP
is based on the upper class speech of the area just north of
London (where Oxford and Cambridge also are).
#Post#: 10411--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pronunciation of "issue"
By: NealC Date: December 18, 2018, 7:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree with Coligno above, my guess on RP was "Royal
Pronunciation" as I had heard of a British posh accent, even
though I could not exactly describe it.
#Post#: 12069--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pronunciation of "issue"
By: SuKi Date: February 4, 2019, 2:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I say 'ishoo'. Posh folks say 'iss-you'. I wouldn't diss you
for not saying iss-you.
Some background: My pronunciation is what you could call
'relaxed RP', which means that it's similar to the classic
BBC-style English that you might hear when you click on the
British English audio icon on dictionary site. Standard, but
not posh.
Feel free to ask any RP-related questions that might be
troubling you.
Oh, and hello everyone. My first post here.
#Post#: 12071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pronunciation of "issue"
By: Nikola Date: February 4, 2019, 3:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't know why "relaxed RP" makes me think of medical drama
series.
"How's her RP?"
"Relaxed."
"Thank God. Good job, everyone."
Hi SuKi, you must be in your element. I'm sure there'll be lots
of questions for you.
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page