DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Even Greener Pastures
HTML https://evengreener.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Cultural Miscellanea
*****************************************************
#Post#: 9942--------------------------------------------------
Mutually Intelligible Languages (or an excuse to post a random v
ideo)
By: Allie Date: December 5, 2018, 5:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I love Joanna Hausmann videos' and, in this one, she talks about
the relationship between the Portuguese and Spanish languages.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVkjzApH-OU
I think it's funny.
But... as this is culture/language related forum, she mentions
how similar some words are in those languages and about being
able to understand some of the language without having studied
it.
What language(s) can you understand a little bit of just because
of the similarities? With this head start, have you ever
considered actually studying them?
(BTW, if you watched the video, yes, he did that on purpose!)
#Post#: 9944--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mutually Intelligible Languages (or an excuse to post a rand
om video)
By: Aliph Date: December 5, 2018, 6:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@Allie, Joanna is great.
I consider learning Portuguese since ages. I would however make
a difference between Brazilian and Portuguese spoken in the
Iberic Peninsula. I love Brazilian while the original Portuguese
(don’t know how to define it) sounds almost like a Slavic
language and not a Romance language, at least when I hear it
spoken in the bus.
I have a good grasp anyway of several languages in their written
form, from Dutch to Catalan, but I know that really learning
them would imply a lot of work. No language is really easy.
I am fascinated by Maltese, with knowledge of Arabic, Italian
and English, I understand a bit. The written Maltese however has
to many diacritic signs. I do not seriously consider learning
Malti, it’s a language spoken only by half a milion persons.
#Post#: 9949--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mutually Intelligible Languages (or an excuse to post a rand
om video)
By: Alharacas Date: December 5, 2018, 12:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree, the video's hilarious.
Yes, having learnt Latin, Spanish and French means that - with
the occasional help of a dictionary - I can understand written
Italian, Portuguese, and usually also the gist of Catalan. And
provided there was a mutual desire to understand each other,
I've even managed to have conversations with Italians.
Spoken Portuguese, on the other hand, remains utterly
impenetrable, just like Joanna says. This is in spite of having
spent several years in Galicia and being able to understand
quite a lot of spoken Galego.
I'd love to learn Italian, but am afraid of either ending up
with a mish-mash of Spanish and Italian, speaking neither
language well - or of ultimately replacing Spanish with Italian,
just like French has been replaced by Spanish in my brain. (I
recently tried to write a short message in French, and it felt
exactly like writing with the left hand feels to a right-handed
person: you know how it's supposed to work, but you just can't
manage to do it right. Made me want to scream with impatience,
and I ended up sounding like an idiot, using the same 3 words
over and over again.)
Of course, I've also flirted with the idea of learning
Portuguese, even going so far as to try and find a language
partner who'd teach me the basics of Portuguese pronunciation.
And yes, I found I was able to imitate - I already know all, or
most of the sounds from other languages, I think, but then I got
afraid (see above).
I've also flirted with the idea of giving up on Polish in favour
of Russian (among other things because Russians are more used
to, and therefore more tolerant of hearing their precious native
language slaughtered by non-native speakers. Also, because there
are quite a lot of cognates, so it wouldn't mean starting again
at zero), but the idea of dragging around a kind of half-learned
language is quite unappealing. It's as if the German in me were
raising his eyebrows, folding his arms and sneering "Uh-huh. I
see. Hoping you'll find Russian easier, are you?
Dünnbrettbohrer!*"
*literally: a person who prefers to drill through thin boards
(instead of substantial ones); meaning "slacker", "lightweight"
#Post#: 9954--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mutually Intelligible Languages (or an excuse to post a rand
om video)
By: SHL Date: December 5, 2018, 4:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
@Alharacas
Great post.
Well, Neal is a geistiger Dünnbrettbohrer compared to me :)
(I`m not going to translate the first word just to give him a
hard time...I`m just kidding because I like Neal. He´s one of
the few who actually responds to me now and again, even if he`s
a little harsh, and doesn`t have a high regard for socialism
like he should, and probably works his employees to the bone.
I`m still hoping he`ll adopt me once he gets his Italian
citizenship, so I better start being nice to him).
Anyway, I was wondering if you can understand Dutch? You can
probably get by with a lot of the written word, but I was
curious how you do with the spoken word? The German family I
lived with in Braunschweig told me once “They can understand us,
but we can`t understand them.” But, they didn`t speak Englisch
either. But, then the Dutch learn German in school, while they
don`t, to my knowledge, teach Dutch in German schools.
Dutch is supposedly the easiest language for both native English
speakers and native German speakers to learn. Grammatically it`s
a lot simpler. Like instead of der, die, das and the genitive,
they only have a combined der and die, “de” but they`ve retained
the neuter, het (das). And they`ve lost the genitive and just
use van (obviously von, which German seems to be trending slowly
toward).
#Post#: 9955--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mutually Intelligible Languages (or an excuse to post a rand
om video)
By: NealC Date: December 5, 2018, 5:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I prefer the German title "Hauptsturmfurher".
Yes I know what it is, for some reason I just love that word.
I almost wrote a rules set for a WWII miniature game with that
as the title. Then Arty Conliffe came out with "Crossfire" and
the rest is history. The bastard.
Sigh.
#Post#: 9956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mutually Intelligible Languages (or an excuse to post a rand
om video)
By: Alharacas Date: December 5, 2018, 6:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Good point, Steven! This would have been the obvious answer to
Allie's question, of course. It just didn't occur to me,
because... well, no. I've never even considered learning any of
the Nordic languages. Except for Icelandic, that seems quite
fascinating, what with these archaic names like Indridasson (son
of...) and Sigmarsdóttir (daughter of...). Just imagine: a
language that hasn't really changed over the last thousand
years!
But the mere idea of a country with an even longer, colder and
darker winter than Germany - gah!
No, I can't understand spoken Dutch. Really, nothing, not even a
little bit here and there. And even written Dutch is much harder
for me to understand than, say, Italian. Written Norwegian, on
the other hand, somehow feels closer to German than Dutch.
But yes, Dutch is taught in some German schools, obviously
mostly close to the border.
#Post#: 9960--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mutually Intelligible Languages (or an excuse to post a rand
om video)
By: SHL Date: December 5, 2018, 9:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Alharacas,
Thanks for your answer. I always wanted to learn Dutch, as a
third language, but never really had the resources. I might take
a beginner lesson on italki, however.
I can sort of make out some Dutch, but not that well. This is
only because my best friend from high school is a native Dutch
and native English speaker. I mentioned this before, but his
parents immigrated to California in 1950 with 100$ between them,
and were millionaires by 1974. He was born here, speaking
English at school and outside the home and only Dutch with his
parents. His parents were like that. They wouldn`t speak a word
of English with him or with each other. So, he speaks Dutch like
a native, but he has trouble reading and writing the language.
He goes to Holland occasionally to visits his relatives and the
people over there don`t know he`s American.
I mentioned once when I drove into Holland a few years ago,
heading for Enschede for a few days, I thought it would be a
snap, because I wrongly assumed German and Dutch were so close.
As soon as I passed that little blue sign on the freeway with
the circle of EU stars on it and Niederlande in the middle I
realized fast things were going to be a little different for me.
Instead of Ausfahrt, I started seeing the freeway exit signs
with “UIT” written on them. Well, that I figured was pretty
easy, just “out.” But, when I say all the other stuff on
billboard and traffic signs in Dutch, I realized I wasn`t in
Germany anymore! I was thinking “Oh no!. What is all THAT
supposed to mean? It kind of looks like German, but not close
enough. Yep, Dutch IS a different language indeed. When I
finally crossed back into Germany I breathed a sigh of relief. I
felt like I was home again. Now I could read everything and talk
to everybody in the local language.
Icelandic is an interesting language. Yes, it`s the language of
the Vikings and hasn`t changed in the last 1000 years, in its
basic structure. And its really weird patronymic naming system
is interesting too. Everyone is either the son or daughter of
their father, and back and forth down through the generations.
It can get a little confusing. Ostfriesland did the same thing a
really long time ago in German (like the 16th Century or
something). I found this out by researching my mother`s maiden
name. Her name from the Jever/Wittmund area actually developed
the same way in German in around the 16th Century, and then when
the language stopped doing that, they just stuck with the one
last name. It´s a very old European naming tradition that
mainland Europe gave up on long ago. Iceland probably kept it
due to their isolation.
I`m been taking WOW air to Germany the last three years because
they started flying out of San Francisco to Frankfurt and Berlin
(Schönefeld) via Keflavik. As you would expect, all the
announcements on the plane are first in Icelandic, then in
English. Icelandic likes long words and sentences I suppose, or
maybe the flight attendant´s English translations are just
shortened, because they will go on forever in Icelandic about
something, and then the English is like just a couple of
sentences. And their planes, of course, have everything in
Icelandic and English, and some of their translations are just
weird. It´s almost like someone used google translate for them
or something. Like I noticed they had some strange translations
for the tray tables on the seats, you know the Klapptisch. They
had the Icelandic for tray table and next to it the English,
labeled as a “tablet seat device” or something weird and I
recall wondering “what´s a “tablet seat device?” What a kooky
translation? Who came with that? It was kind of funny actually.
You would think they could do better.
But, if you learn Icelandic you better start loving the “Th”
sound because it seems every word of theirs has at least two of
these sounds in it. But, they are great people and I`m sure
you`d totally surprise them speaking even one or two sentences
of Icelandic. I`m sure they don`t expect anyone to know their
language, being a country of only 325,000 people, and the only
people in the world speaking it.
And yeah, it can get cold up there, and windy. I mean in July. I
recall walking from the terminal to the Hotel Aurora with this
biting cold wind and wow, it is cold. And no trees either. Just
these few little tiny ones someone planted. It´s pretty barren
up there, because it`s volcanic. No forests or anything. And the
sun goes down around 1:00 in the morning and goes up again
around 3:00 or 4:00 and then the sun really doesn`t disappear,
but looks like it just dips behind the mountains a little. So it
never really gets dark in the Summer like we are used to. And
it`s the opposite in the Winter. So, everyone has these thick
shades on the windows to blacken out the light to sleep. But,
Iceland is a cool place. Expensive, but nice. 26.00 USD (22,00€)
for a hamburger and French fries, but I wasn`t in a position to
argument about it.
#Post#: 10004--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mutually Intelligible Languages (or an excuse to post a rand
om video)
By: Allie Date: December 7, 2018, 10:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, guys. No time to answer my own topic before.
Thanks for the comments.
I am happy SHL asked about Dutch. I would have certainly thought
about it for a German native speaker.
Sometimes I can read (basic stuff) in Dutch and it’s definitely
because of what I know of German.
But I didn’t know it was the easiest language for an English
speaker. I’ve always had the impression Scandinavian languages
resemble English more.
Norwegian makes me think A LOT about English.
As for the Romantic languages, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian
are quite similar. You can read a lot as we share lots of words
and if spoken slowly and without many slangs and expressions, we
can actually manage to have a conversation.
French has lots in common with those, but it’s notably
different.
I don’t understand Romanian and never had much contact with it,
but (to my despair) I was told they can understand me. I still
don’t know if it was just that girl at the shop (when I was
complaining about the prices in Portuguese) or Romanian people
in general. I hope not, as it was enough embarrassment.
#Post#: 10042--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mutually Intelligible Languages (or an excuse to post a rand
om video)
By: Coligno Date: December 8, 2018, 6:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Scottish Gaelic is reasonably comprehensible to Irish speakers,
at least to those from the north (I've known southerners who say
that it sounds completely foreign to them, though). It has a
more rugged sound to it, whereas Irish sounds softer. It's easy
enough to read too. There are a few false friends to look out
for, such as "bruidhinn" which means "to talk" in Scotland but
"to fight" in Ireland, and "gaol", which in Scotland means
"love" and in Ireland "a relative".
Also spoken Manx is fairly understandable, it sounds a bit like
bad Irish with an English accent; but written Manx is quite
mind-boggling as it doesn't use traditional Gaelic orthography
but a bizarre spelling more or less based on English with hints
of Welsh some made-up bits thrown in.
Ulster's close ties with Scotland are evident in English too.
Many English speakers finds Scots completely incomprehensible,
but it's not so difficult for us as Scots has had a strong
influence on the English of the north of Ireland.
People often assume that Irish/Gaelic and Welsh are similar, but
despite being related there's absolutely no mutual comprehension
whatsoever between them, and even cognate words are usually
unrecognisable to anyone who's not a Celticist (e.g. Irish
"ceann" = Welsh "pen"; Irish "fliuch" = Welsh "gwlyb").
#Post#: 10044--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mutually Intelligible Languages (or an excuse to post a rand
om video)
By: SHL Date: December 9, 2018, 12:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Coligno,
That`s interesting about the Scottish Gaelic.
I suppose the Brits were pretty busy in the 18th century, and I
suppose long before and a while after, colonizing everywhere
they could, and their first colony was Ireland, or so I`ve been
told. My grandmother’s entire family were from Cookstown, County
Tyrone, in Ulster, before coming to the US in the 1860s. I
really don`t know what`s going on in Cookstown, other than that
they have a lot of dairy farms maybe? Something attracted them
all to that same town. I`ll never figure that one out. But,
they were Protestants, so I get the feeling they were really
originally from Scotland and were part of some British plan to
colonize Ulster and make it as Protestant/ Anglican Church as
possible. We all know how that turned out.
I never heard of any of my grandmother`s people speaking Gaelic
in any form. I think they were content to waive the Union Jack,
and speak English with whatever accents they had. In a way it`s
odd the way they lost any sense of being Scottish and created
this identify of being Irish, when they were really Scottish.
Oh well, it sure doesn`t matter now. But, the Brits always
amazed me the way they went all over the world, what India, Hong
Kong, all over Africa, the Caribbean, North America, just about
everywhere you can imagine, and then after the Second World War,
quickly gave up all their colonies, relatively fast? And they
had some places that were pretty bad too. Uganda,
Nigeria.................and the list just goes on. Some colonies
had to fight for independence, but by the 60s, they were happy
as clams to leave a lot of places. Places like Nigeria and
Uganda. When they demanded independence, the Brits took one look
around and said, „Hey, not a problem. Here you go. Bye.“ Then
they hit the road fast. Now they did hang onto their „lease“ of
Hong Kong, (I guess they figured it had some usefulness) and
then said bye bye to it too.
Oh, but don`t even think about taking the Falkland Islands away
from them! See, some places they like I suppose. Most people
couldnt even find that place on the map, but they`ll never let
go of that paradise.
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page