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#Post#: 9862--------------------------------------------------
Hey, let's get in MORE immigrants...
By: NealC Date: December 3, 2018, 10:04 am
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HTML https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/census-confirms-63-percent-of-non-citizens-on-welfare-4-6-million-households
Enough already!
My grandparents immigrated and didn't take a dime from the
government.
#Post#: 9864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hey, let's get in MORE immigrants...
By: Alharacas Date: December 3, 2018, 2:48 pm
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But... Neal, isn't it true that immigrants mostly work in
unskilled jobs that aren't paid very well? Like cleaning,
seasonal work on farms, that kind of thing? So, if health
insurance is quite expensive, then it's not really surprising
that they'd need Medicaid, is it? And lunch at school, well,
that doesn't necessarily mean the parents aren't working - or
does it?
#Post#: 9865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hey, let's get in MORE immigrants...
By: SHL Date: December 3, 2018, 3:22 pm
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[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=659.msg9864#msg9864
date=1543870100]
But... Neal, isn't it true that immigrants mostly work in
unskilled jobs that aren't paid very well? Like cleaning,
seasonal work on farms, that kind of thing? So, if health
insurance is quite expensive, then it's not really surprising
that they'd need Medicaid, is it? And lunch at school, well,
that doesn't necessarily mean the parents aren't working - or
does it?
[/quote]
That´s true Alharacas.
And, since medical insurance is so expensive in the US, many
uninsured people (of all kinds) have to use emergency rooms (die
Notaufnahme) for basic healthcare because, in the US, no one,
with or without insurance, can be refused treatment at an
emergency room, anywhere. And the cost of an emergency room
visit usually is enormously inflated. And the salaries of
medical doctors in the US is obscene (300,000 USD +/year,
250,000€, compared to Germany, where it`s around 84,000-114,0000
€ with the same or better quality healthcare provided
HTML https://www.merkur.de/leben/karriere/gehalt-arzt-viel-verdienen-aerzte-zr-9776779.html).<br
/>And the 300,000 USD/year is just for a Hausarzt, a GP. A clien
t
of mine is a Hausartzt and makes a base salary of 300,000
USD/year and gets a bonus every year of 30,000 USD. Others
easily hit the 500,000 USD/mark (420,000€) in a few years. I
have medical insurance, but many people don`t. And doctors here
don`t like me all that much. As you know, I can get mad about
somethings fairly quickly, and when I do, I don`t mind letting
people know about it, doctors included. For example, when a man
hits 50, they recommend he have an annual PSA (prostate specific
antigen) test, which is contraversial. The creator of the test
said it`s so inaccurate he wished he`d never invented it in the
1980s. It can cause more harm than good. I went to my doc once
and he sent me out for some routine blood tests. When I asked
him what was on the list, he mentioned the PSA test. I told him,
“No, I don`t consent to that test. Take it off the list
immediately.” He said “Well, the results aren`t sent to you
though out automated system.” I told him I didn`t give a d*mn
and I asked him if he ever bothered reading the statement on the
entrance to hospital that said a patient has a right to refuse
ANY medical test or procedure for ANY reason under both State
and Federal law. Period. I told him if he didn`t take that test
off the list, I wasn`t having any blood drawn. He didn`t argue
me and just checked it off the list.
And about the school lunches. Yes, god forbid that some child
get to eat at school if it might cost a US millionaire 50 cents
a year extra.
#Post#: 9868--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hey, let's get in MORE immigrants...
By: NealC Date: December 3, 2018, 5:03 pm
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It is once again the struggle in my mind to understand the
changing nature of immigration in the US. In the past it was
single young men and the impact was minimal. Now it is whole
families, old and young, using the public health facilities,
schools, you name it.
We can argue about what we allow in terms of legal immigration,
that is policy. As the article states, half of the recipients
are illegal. How much welfare and benefits are illegal
immigrants permitted in Germany?
#Post#: 9869--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hey, let's get in MORE immigrants...
By: Alharacas Date: December 3, 2018, 6:39 pm
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The situation is quite different: in Germany, you're required to
live on benefits until your application for asylum has been
processed (which may take several years). You wouldn't be able
to start working before that, because you wouldn't have any
papers/insurance. (For a big company, it wouldn't be worth the
hassle; a small company would be ruined by the legal costs; if
you employed somebody illegally as a nanny or
housekeeper/cleaner, the neighbours would snitch on you.) Nor
would you even want to start working illegally, because that
would have a negative impact on your application for asylum.
If you'd just like to work in Germany, you'd need to find a job
before coming here. Your employer would need to show the
authorities that he'd tried to find an employee within the EU
first and had been unable to find one, and he'd have to send you
the contract before you're allowed to enter the country.
#Post#: 9870--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hey, let's get in MORE immigrants...
By: NealC Date: December 3, 2018, 7:16 pm
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The rules are once again -policy- and we can argue the fine
points of policy and procedure. What absolutely frustrates me
to distraction is the rules here are entirely disregarded or
even deliberately circumvented.
#Post#: 9871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hey, let's get in MORE immigrants...
By: Susan Date: December 3, 2018, 7:49 pm
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In Germany it sounds like most or all immigrants apply for
asylum. Is that your impression Alharacas? It made me curious
and I tried to search for how many of our immigrants have ever
applied for asylum. My general impression has been that people
that come to the U.S. generally do so for economic reasons, not
that they are truly persecuted by the government of their home
country.
I have thus far been unsuccessful at finding what percentage of
immigrants apply for asylum. I have only found statistics of
the percentage of asylum applications that are approved.
HTML https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-06-25/five-things-to-know-about-immigration-and-asylum-in-the-us<br
/>
Most of my teachers from Venezuela either have left their
country or are planning to leave. Several of my teachers have
immigrated to other countries and one has come to the U.S.
legally after obtaining a contract to teach Spanish in a public
high school for three years through a cultural exchange program.
(However, he cannot legally stay past that time.) Several
others have looked at the asylum process for the U.S., and
between the risks that asylum will not be granted due to lack of
evidence that their government is specifically targeting them
personally and the cost of coming here, so far all have chosen
to immigrate to other Latin American countries. I do have one
teacher whose sister was born in the U.S. and had previously
lived here and then moved back to Venezuela. She recently moved
here again and, within a month of arriving, found a job
assisting other immigrants full-time during the week and another
job for weekends. I am curious if I can get her perspective on
all this. I was really surprised by the article, especially
the part that said the rate of immigrants who are on welfare 10
years later is higher than initially.
So what happens to people who can not even get their government
to renew their passports? Does anyone know? I have a
Venezuelan teacher living in Peru that says right now a
Venezuelan does not have to have a passport in Peru-- because
their government is so bad about not even processing passport
requests after many months. She said the airlines are not
requiring passports in Peru and in much of Latin America, at
least for Venezuelans. She told me this as she was saying she
feels Venezuelans should not wait to get their papers in order,
delaying leaving their country in order to have all their legal
papers, but should get out of there if they have the money to
leave.
#Post#: 9872--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hey, let's get in MORE immigrants...
By: Susan Date: December 3, 2018, 8:26 pm
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Neil, I have read things about the future of various countries´
economies based on the growth rate. What I have read suggested
that the problems that countries like the UK, Japan, and China
face in the future due to the aging of the population should not
be quite as severe in the U.S. because of immigration that
should allow us to have a better percentage of working age
population compared to the retired generation.
Here where I live the unemployment rate is low and we have lots
of space, so unless the welfare rates get unduly high and I
start to think these immigrants are not going to have children
that end up being valuable contributors to our society, I am not
all that worried about it. What makes you feel so differently?
You do not buy the argument that the immigrants, in the long
run, will be useful for the stability of our country and our
economic power?
I live in the part of the U.S. which is not highly populated.
HTML https://demographics.virginia.edu/DotMap/
Do you think the
perception about our country having too many immigrants is
partly related to that? (I think I am going to start a
different topic about dot maps--- I found a German dot map and
it and a few other things have my curiosity going again.)
#Post#: 9874--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hey, let's get in MORE immigrants...
By: SHL Date: December 3, 2018, 8:47 pm
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Neal,
I carefully read this article, specifically looking for
something I did not find, an enormous non-sequitur: That illegal
immigrants (or legal ones for that matter even) take out more
from the economic system through welfare benefits than they
contribute. Everytime you hear someone complain about this (“the
illegal immigrants are taking all our welfare benefits”) the
assumption is it`s costing the US tax payer and government
money, hence leaving the coffers drained. But, why assume that?
Is this really true? Where are the statistics on this?
I haven`t researched this myself, so I`m not saying the
government isn`t losing money by providing welfare to illegal or
even legal immigrants, but again why assume, without evidence,
that this is true? How do you know this? It`s a bit like the
student loan program. I read once that defaulted student loans
cost the government money. Of course. Fine. But, at the same
time, I`ve heard the argument that the government actually makes
money on the student loan program even with the defaults. It`s a
bit like credit card companies. Sure, they lose money on the
minority of people who default on the card and file bankruptcy.
But, they keep issuing the cards. Why is that? Because, overall,
they are raking in the cash, in the millions, maybe billions,
even with the defaults. It`s good business. You lose some, but
overall gain more. The wins exceeed the losses.
So, what I´d be curious to see is this: If you allowed the
illegals to stay, apply for asylum status (or refugee status and
there is a difference but I forgot what it is since I don`t do
emigration law and the only class I had in it was over 30 years
ago, but I do recall there`s some sort of difference- shows you
how much I got out of THAT class), and you allowed the illegals
to work, they`d have taxes taken out of their minimum wage
checks, and social security, and so on, and contribute to the
system. Do we know they wouldn`t actually put more into the
system than they take out in welfare benefits. Or what if it
were really just a wash?
#Post#: 9876--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hey, let's get in MORE immigrants...
By: SHL Date: December 3, 2018, 9:12 pm
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Susan,
I`m quite sure that Germany has true asylees and not economic
refugees (80% of their asylum applications end up getting
rejected by the way). The asylees are supposedly running for
their lives, not going someplace where the grass is greener
(Germany may be “Even Greener Pastures”, but that´s not a
reason for asylum).
The US has essentially a very similar emigration system. They
once had a lottery system, and then they had a country specific
system (Mexico and the Philippines were the top two with waiting
lists around 10 years), and I`m not sure that`s still in place,
but we`ve always had work visas for those with special skills.
It`s exacly like Alharacas said of Germany. An employer could
offer a job to someone from another country by saying the job is
so narrowly tailored and skill specific, that no US citizen in
the local area (or green card holder) qualifies for it and thus
needs to be offered to someone outside the country. That`s a
pretty standard rule.
Then there`s the investor visa. If you`ve got a lot of money and
are from another country, and want to open a business here, you
can do it by jumping through various hoops. You might have to
show you will hire a certain number of locals as part of the
business too, then they`re happy to have you. I`m sure Germany
and all other EU countries have something similar for those from
non-EU countries. As long as you can show you won`t become a
burden on the country`s economy and wind up costing them money
to have you, especially if your presence will contribute to the
growth of the economy, I can`t imagine any place not welcoming
you. Why, not? It just benefits them.
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