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#Post#: 9519--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dog stuff
By: Nikola Date: November 24, 2018, 5:36 pm
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@SHL
„Who was the b*tch over here on the chart?“
That really made me laugh.
#Post#: 9520--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dog stuff
By: Alharacas Date: November 24, 2018, 6:07 pm
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Nikola, I'd read the word before, in old novels where they talk
a lot about farming. It hadn't really occurred to me in the
context of dog breeding, but it came up in the google results:
"breeding b*tch... bla-bla... sire and dam...". Then I looked it
up in Pons, where it says "female parent, esp. of quadrupeds",
so I compared the results, to see which one's used more
frequently. :)
#Post#: 9522--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dog stuff
By: SHL Date: November 24, 2018, 9:00 pm
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[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=641.msg9520#msg9520
date=1543104441]
Nikola, I'd read the word before, in old novels where they talk
a lot about farming. It hadn't really occurred to me in the
context of dog breeding, but it came up in the google results:
"breeding b*tch... bla-bla... sire and dam...". Then I looked it
up in Pons, where it says "female parent, esp. of quadrupeds",
so I compared the results, to see which one's used more
frequently. :)
[/quote]
Alharacas, you did a good job in researching this. I do this a
lot with German words. I`ll find an unusual word, and look at
LEO, and hopefully they will have it listed in their chart in
the back that shows the word frequency usage. So, if a word has
a very low usage number (like a 0.5 compared to a 200 on other
words) I assume that`s one to make minimal use of (I think they
use computer programs of newspaper articles or literature from
the last several decades to see how often the word pops up). Or,
if Duden says the word is veraltend, you know its frequency
rating is going to be low. I`d love to hear which German words
older people you know use that sound old-fashioned to you. I
know older people can have a slightly different use of words.
Like in this interview with Helmut Schmidt, I think from the
late 90s, he was questioned about the hijacking of the Lufthansa
plane from Mallorca in 1977. Notice how he he uses the verb
„ersuchen“ as „request“
HTML https://youtu.be/8NcpCOumh0s.
(at 3:55-4:11)
I asked my German friend and others about this and was told not
to use ersuchen, just to use a more common word like bitten, as
this word was both old and used more in official speech. Its
word usage according to the LEO chart dropped from about a 15 in
1950 to a 4 now.
My German professor at college, a native speaker from Hamburg,
used to always say „zum Exempel“ interchangeably with „zum
Beispiel.“ But, when I asked my German friend about this last
Summer, she just said forget it. Nobody says „zum Exempel“. I
had long given up using it knowing nobody made use of it. And
the use is listed as veraltend, not entirely dead by on its
linguistic death bed. Too bad because I always liked that one,
because it sounded so much like English. Or, another one I liked
was das Diktionär. That`s another one on its linguistic death
bed. My professor used that one in class all the time too (but
that was 1980 and she was 60 then), and rarely used das
Wörterbuch. On the word usage chart, it ranked about 0.03 in
1950 and now barely registers in as a 0.001. Wow. And yes,
veraltend as they call it too. Another one that I`m sorry to see
go. By contrast, das Wörterbuch gets a solid 2.0 on the chart.
So, those charts are useful.
This word b*tch in the dog breeding business is one of those
words from a specialty subject that ordinary native speakers not
in the dog breeding business don`t know or hear much. I vaguely
recall hearing sire and dam, but my 1990s era recollection of
the word usage had to do with pedigree charts. I never heard
„dam“ referred to in a breeding female pedigree dog, but b*tch
is still used. Like I said earlier, I wouldn`t use it myself,
only because of its more derogatory use pertaining to women.
And you can imagine how wacko it would sound looking at a
pedigree chart and asking „who`s the b*tch over here?“
I still think sire and dam sounds a lot better than the doggy`s
„dad“ and „mom.“ LOL.
When I heard that, I had to hold back the laughter and wondered
if the woman who said that was retarded or something. :)
#Post#: 9524--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dog stuff
By: Alharacas Date: November 25, 2018, 8:37 am
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Steven, could you please tell me where to find the word usage
chart? Do you have to register as a user first? Is there a
particular icon you have to click?
My mother (*1926) still uses Jiddish words and expressions which
once abounded in German, particularly in the Berlin area, but
which are now all but forgotten here: Mumpitz erzählen (to talk
nonsense, to lie), Massel haben (be lucky), Zores mit jemandem
haben (not to be on good terms with somebody). Also words which
were (kind of) adopted from French, probably at the time when
Napoleon's troops had occupied Berlin: blümerant (from bleu
mourant, for: to feel slightly ill) and Fisimatenten/Sperenzchen
machen (to make a fuss) (although whether the latter really come
from French is debatable).
Using the preterite and the subjunctive also mark out your
speech as old-fashioned. I recently read about a German teacher
whose entire class of 16-year-olds accused him of having made up
the form ihr tatet - that's how unfamiliar they were with it.
And a friend of mine told me that none of her university
students knew the meaning of the word die Mahd (making hay),
they thought it was a typo and was supposed to have been die
Magd (obsolete word for female servant).
#Post#: 9525--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dog stuff
By: Truman Overby Date: November 25, 2018, 9:51 am
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Truck farm, truck patch, or truck patch farming. The term isn't
really used a lot these days. Farmers Markets are where truck
patch farmers take their produce to sell it. Strictly speaking,
a truck patch was planted to provide the farmer with the produce
that he needed. Any excess would be trucked to town or to the
side of the road and sold.
'Farmers Market' has the cachet that city folks like SHL find
soothing to his pampered existence. SHL: "Jeeves, my man, would
you kindly take the Rolls and pop by the farmers market and pick
up a pound or two of those absolutely delightful organic baby
beets"?
#Post#: 9526--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dog stuff
By: SHL Date: November 25, 2018, 10:18 am
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[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=641.msg9524#msg9524
date=1543156648]
Steven, could you please tell me where to find the word usage
chart? Do you have to register as a user first? Is there a
particular icon you have to click?
My mother (*1926) still uses Jiddish words and expressions which
once abounded in German, particularly in the Berlin area, but
which are now all but forgotten here: Mumpitz erzählen (to talk
nonsense, to lie), Massel haben (be lucky), Zores mit jemandem
haben (not to be on good terms with somebody). Also words which
were (kind of) adopted from French, probably at the time when
Napoleon's troops had occupied Berlin: blümerant (from bleu
mourant, for: to feel slightly ill) and Fisimatenten/Sperenzchen
machen (to make a fuss) (although whether the latter really come
from French is debatable).
Using the preterite and the subjunctive also mark out your
speech as old-fashioned. I recently read about a German teacher
whose entire class of 16-year-olds accused him of having made up
the form ihr tatet - that's how unfamiliar they were with it.
And a friend of mine told me that none of her university
students knew the meaning of the word die Mahd (making hay),
they thought it was a typo and was supposed to have been die
Magd (obsolete word for female servant).
[/quote]
Wow, it is amazing that teenagers wouldn`t be familiar with „ihr
tatet“, which sounds just standard to me.
As to LEO, You just have to download LEO (which has several
languages, French, Spanish, and several others), then when you
find a word you clink on the box for the word and it takes you
to the DWDS (das Wortauskunftssystem zur deutschen Sprache in
Geschichte und Gegenwart) for the word where you can see the
frequency and usage charts (I don`t know if they have something
similar for other languages) and the sources for the historic
word use appears in published works, either newspapers or
literature and publication dates, some even going back to the
1800s. You can then register for the site and it`s free and see
more details.
I tend to make frequent use of the preterite, which we used to
only call Das Imperfekt, and I always and regularly use the
Konjunktiv II and ocassionally but not often Kunjuktiv I, and I
don’t think anything of it. Occasionally I`ll use the Perfekt,
and I don`t know why, but it seems a bit wordy too me, and I
once always used Sie with everyone except children, and close
friends. Now, it seems people everywhere are switching to du
and seem to prefer it, which seems a bit strange to me (almost
impolite in some cases) after they get to know you for even just
a few minutes, which I don`t understand, but if they prefer that
it`s okay.
It also seems that the Imperfekt is has a kind of North/South
split to it, so you`ll heard a lot more of the Imperfekt in the
North than South, with a couple of exceptions.
I was also wondering if you`ve noticed this phenomenon: If you
heard Helmut Schmidt in his interview, he does this a lot. He`ll
frequently say, „das kann ich nicht erinnern.“ He`ll just drop
the reflexive with erinnern altogether. This seems to accord
with Duden which states:
Erinnern:
„<ugs., bes. nordd. auch mit Akk.-Obj. u. ohne Reflexivpron.:>
ich erinnere ihn gut;
das erinnere ich nicht.“
I`ve heard that before and occassionally drop the reflexive
myself much of the time. I wonder if you`ve noticed that much.
But I`m of course very familiar with the more common reflexive
use with erinnern and fall back on using it a lot sort of
unconsciously.
It seems the German language is getting slowly grammatically
simplified. Having learned, the old fashioned style from
teachers in 1980 who grew up in the Germany of the 20s, 30s and
40s, I suppose I just got used to their style of speaking, and
writing, and as old-fashioned as it may seem, it sounds natural
to me.
#Post#: 9527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dog stuff
By: SHL Date: November 25, 2018, 10:21 am
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[quote author=Truman Overby link=topic=641.msg9525#msg9525
date=1543161060]
Truck farm, truck patch, or truck patch farming. The term isn't
really used a lot these days. Farmers Markets are where truck
patch farmers take their produce to sell it. Strictly speaking,
a truck patch was planted to provide the farmer with the produce
that he needed. Any excess would be trucked to town or to the
side of the road and sold.
'Farmers Market' has the cachet that city folks like SHL find
soothing to his pampered existence. SHL: "Jeeves, my man, would
you kindly take the Rolls and pop by the farmers market and pick
up a pound or two of those absolutely delightful organic baby
beets"?
[/quote]
Pampered existence? I wish I had one. And I don`t get much
thrill out of farmers markets. They block off streets which I
find annoying and avoid them.
#Post#: 9534--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dog stuff
By: Sudeep Date: November 25, 2018, 11:17 pm
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@Nikola, you may find it interesting:)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MeOAH3oJrQJemRArmxuZYYPMB9M1cvTp/view?usp=sharing
#Post#: 9536--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dog stuff
By: Aliph Date: November 26, 2018, 1:23 am
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[quote author=Sudeep link=topic=641.msg9534#msg9534
date=1543209450]
@Nikola, you may find it interesting:)
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MeOAH3oJrQJemRArmxuZYYPMB9M1cvTp/view?usp=sharing
[/quote]
Amazing, Sudeep you kept records of your entries on Italki!!!
@Nikola that discussion shows how Italki was before the April
purge. I guess you will not find anymore this quality of
exchange. It is just incredible that people like Sudeep and
Sepideh (the girl from Iran who opened every day a new
discussion) were banned for ever.
#Post#: 9538--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dog stuff
By: NealC Date: November 26, 2018, 6:38 am
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What a surprise, I disagree with Michael Richards. Calling
someone "bitchy" is definitely offensive and you wouldn't use
"to b*tch" in a formal or work setting.
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