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#Post#: 8954--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elections in the States
DIR By: NealC
Date: November 8, 2018, 6:51 am
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@Alharacas
The way to investigate if cleaning up the rolls was in reality
racially biased voter suppression is easy. Were the same
standards of proof applied in all cases? Those removed, had
they failed the burden of proof? Or were they just black, or
Jewish, or poor or whatever.
In the U.S. the standards to vote are usually proof of
citizenship, age qualification, and residency. Bring in
specific documents and you are set. The documents are usually
the same as what you need to get a State ID or driver's license,
in my state you can register to vote at the same time as getting
an ID/license.
There is another factor, especially in the south. Politically
motivated voter registration (from both sides) has been shown to
be lax in standards in their efforts to simply get the numbers.
It is particularly evident in poor and black communities, when
people come in trying to get them voting as a block for their
candidates.
At one time the case could be made that lax standards had to be
overlooked as poor or rural communities often were not producing
proper documentation. Yes especially in black communities. A
poor black man born in the 1930's at home can be excused for
never having a birth certificate filed. That is not true any
more and the rolls need to be fixed.
It took us years to get my dead father and my brother who had
moved out of state off the voter rolls here. In NY they are a
mess because everyone is afraid to touch them. Anyone who tries
to do anything with them is immediately beaten into submission
by the discrimination police.
#Post#: 8956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elections in the States
DIR By: Alharacas
Date: November 8, 2018, 7:08 am
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I'm sorry, Neal, but I'm afraid I still don't understand. So,
your registration is not accepted if you can't supply proof of
your identity. Fine. That means you aren't going to be on any
list.
If somebody's dead or has moved away and is not struck off the
rolls, that just means statistics about voters' participation
(and maybe some other statistics) are going to be messed up,
doesn't it?
But if somebody isn't dead, still lives where they used to live,
and has registered/voted in the past, how do you strike them off
the rolls?
#Post#: 8957--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elections in the States
DIR By: NealC
Date: November 8, 2018, 7:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I would imagine the proofs they brought in to get on the rolls
are part of the record.
For instance we have the records that my great grandfather
applied late in his life for compensation from the government
for wounds he suffered at Gettysburg. At the time his military
medical records could not be found (we have them now, the
miracles of microfilm and the internet). His application was
approved without documents because of "attestation". Several of
his friends and neighbors who knew him all his life signed sworn
statements that he served in the Union Army, and that he was
wounded in the arm at Gettysburg.
Attestation of age and birth and residency could have been
acceptable once upon a time. Now it would be decidedly
unnecessary and therefore unacceptable. Perhaps some forms of
ID were accepted once upon a time but were since found to be
easily counterfeited. Perhaps some voter registration drives
were notorious for simply lying.
The problem in the U.S. is if you try to do anything sensible
someone will attack it as racist or discriminatory in some way.
#Post#: 9032--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elections in the States
DIR By: SHL
Date: November 9, 2018, 12:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NealC link ---
>
> "That Reagan gave a speech and the wall came down is
correlation, not causation."
>
> Reagan did far more than give a speech. But I am not going to
argue that. Most historians (all?) give Reagan's policies
credit for helping to end the Cold War. But I am not going to
argue that either. What for? When has research and footnotes
ever made a dent?
>
> If Reagan and his policies were not causation what was it
then? Did Communism finally fall simply because of its own dead
weight, and the weight of its oppression on the people? Is that
a more acceptable answer to a Communist?
>
> Choose which one you like best.
>
--- End Quote ---
Reagan had nothing to do with die Wende, or the Wall coming down
or anything. This is just classic Republicanism taking credit
for any good thing that happens in the world (and ignoring all
the crap and suffering they cause) that they had no part in
creating, and blaming the democrats for anything bad that
happens (like dumping problems in the laps of Democrats the
Republicans caused themselves and blaming the Democrats for not
cleaning it up- take the IRAN hostage crisis of 1979 as an
example).
Trump and the Republicans are all for voter fraud if they can
get away with it and it favors them. And voter suppression of
course, and gerrymandering, which the have done constantly. And
they resisted ever social benefit advance there ever was that
helped the average American. They resisted the Civil Rights Act
of 1964, Medicare, social security, unemployment insurance,
everything good. The are a disgrace. At any rate, there is no
Republican Party anymore, just the Trump party. He`s like a
Virus, like HIV, that invades cells and turns them into
themselves.
Oh, and by the way, I never had to show proof of anything in the
mid-term elections. I just walked into the polling station, gave
them my address and voted. No ID required. Nothing.
#Post#: 9034--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elections in the States
DIR By: SHL
Date: November 9, 2018, 1:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
And Trump`s tweet was a typical scare tactic to try to dissuade
people from voting against him because he wants all power. Very
transparent. But it won`t work. And look at the way he
humiliated the CNN reporter who bravely stood up to him. Typical
unprofessional conduct on Trump`s part. Der Schulhofrabauke-
schoolyard bully.
#Post#: 9036--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elections in the States
DIR By: NealC
Date: November 9, 2018, 2:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Reagan had nothing to do with die Wende, or the Wall coming down
or anything.
>>>This is just stupid, no one but you believes this. No need
for rebuttal
This is just classic Republicanism taking credit for any good
thing that happens in the world (and ignoring all the crap and
suffering they cause) that they had no part in creating, and
blaming the democrats for anything bad that happens
>>>Your black and white morality and inability to ascribe any
good to those who disagree might be a sign of mental disorder.
You really should look into this.
(like dumping problems in the laps of Democrats the Republicans
caused themselves and blaming the Democrats for not cleaning it
up- take the IRAN hostage crisis of 1979 as an example).
>>>no one blames Carter for the start of problems with Iran. We
do blame him for his ineffectual and inept response.
Trump and the Republicans are all for voter fraud if they can
get away with it and it favors them. And voter suppression of
course, and gerrymandering, which the have done constantly.
>>>More dumbness. Do you really think both parties do not have
problems with corrupt members, voting irregularities, and
especially gerrymandering? The gerrymandering case that went to
the supreme court was against the democrats. See my comment
above about possibly needing help to recognize that even your
enemies are human. Your friends definitely are.
And they resisted ever social benefit advance there ever was
that helped the average American. They resisted the Civil Rights
Act of 1964, Medicare, social security, unemployment insurance,
everything good. The are a disgrace.
>>>Civil rights -- do your homework, that is pathetic.
Democrats ran a 5 day filibuster to stop the passage of civil
rights. Medicare was expanded under Nixon and other republican
presidents. Social Security is an Albatross, why am I not
allowed to opt out of it? Don't you think you could end up with
more at retirement if you were allowed to invest 7.5% of your
salary week in and week out?
At any rate, there is no Republican Party anymore, just the
Trump party. He`s like a Virus, like HIV, that invades cells and
turns them into themselves.
<<<Dumbness. People who disagree with you are not by definition
sub human. See above.
Oh, and by the way, I never had to show proof of anything in the
mid-term elections. I just walked into the polling station, gave
them my address and voted. No ID required. Nothing.
>>>Try to understand something. This foolishness is one of the
reasons we have the electoral college. The other states do not
trust California to police their voters for fraud. So a vote in
Cali is only worth so much.
#Post#: 9042--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elections in the States
DIR By: Alharacas
Date: November 9, 2018, 3:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I see, thanks for the answer, Neal!
And what a great story about your grandfather, thanks for
telling us. :)
#Post#: 9043--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elections in the States
DIR By: NealC
Date: November 9, 2018, 3:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
When my father found out about it he told my mother
"See! Your family has been on the Dole since 1902" :-)
#Post#: 9047--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elections in the States
DIR By: SHL
Date: November 9, 2018, 4:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: NealC link ---
>
> Reagan had nothing to do with die Wende, or the Wall coming
down or anything.
> >>>This is just stupid, no one but you believes this. No need
for rebuttal
>
> This is just classic Republicanism taking credit for any good
thing that happens in the world (and ignoring all the crap and
suffering they cause) that they had no part in creating, and
blaming the democrats for anything bad that happens
> >>>Your black and white morality and inability to ascribe any
good to those who disagree might be a sign of mental disorder.
You really should look into this.
>
> (like dumping problems in the laps of Democrats the
Republicans caused themselves and blaming the Democrats for not
cleaning it up- take the IRAN hostage crisis of 1979 as an
example).
> >>>no one blames Carter for the start of problems with Iran.
We do blame him for his ineffectual and inept response.
>
>
> Trump and the Republicans are all for voter fraud if they can
get away with it and it favors them. And voter suppression of
course, and gerrymandering, which the have done constantly.
> >>>More dumbness. Do you really think both parties do not
have problems with corrupt members, voting irregularities, and
especially gerrymandering? The gerrymandering case that went to
the supreme court was against the democrats. See my comment
above about possibly needing help to recognize that even your
enemies are human. Your friends definitely are.
>
> And they resisted ever social benefit advance there ever was
that helped the average American. They resisted the Civil Rights
Act of 1964, Medicare, social security, unemployment insurance,
everything good. The are a disgrace.
> >>>Civil rights -- do your homework, that is pathetic.
Democrats ran a 5 day filibuster to stop the passage of civil
rights. Medicare was expanded under Nixon and other republican
presidents. Social Security is an Albatross, why am I not
allowed to opt out of it? Don't you think you could end up with
more at retirement if you were allowed to invest 7.5% of your
salary week in and week out?
>
> At any rate, there is no Republican Party anymore, just the
Trump party. He`s like a Virus, like HIV, that invades cells and
turns them into themselves.
> <<<Dumbness. People who disagree with you are not by
definition sub human. See above.
>
> Oh, and by the way, I never had to show proof of anything in
the mid-term elections. I just walked into the polling station,
gave them my address and voted. No ID required. Nothing.
> >>>Try to understand something. This foolishness is one of
the reasons we have the electoral college. The other states do
not trust California to police their voters for fraud. So a
vote in Cali is only worth so much.
>
--- End Quote ---
I`d really like to know what Reagan had to do with the fall of
the Wall or Iron Curtain. What could this guy have to do with
any of this? Threaten to nuke someone if they didn't do as he
said? Give me a break. That doesn’t make any sense. Reagan was
just a blowhard looking out for the rich.
And as far as me painting the Republicans with a broad brush, I
can`t think of anything they`ve ever done but make rich people
richer and poor people poorer, stage or back coups of countries
whose democratically elected governments they didn`t like, and
of course start wars we should have never been involved in.
Nothing.
And gerrymandering is a Republican speciality, as well as
appealing to the ignorant masses by lying to them, by always
saying they are on their side. No they are not. And any thinking
person can see that.
If any democrats opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act they were
clearly just the old Dixie Demos, who know that. That should
come as no surprise. Those old Dixie Democrats turned Republican
a long time ago.
And social security? Ah, that’s what keeps old people from
starving in the streets in case you didnt notice. As if things
weren’t bad enough as it is. No, I don’t think people should be
allowed to opt out of it. That’s like saying people should get
school vouchers so they can take their kids out of public
schools and put them in segregated
schools. That idea would have gone over big in the 60s in the
South.
And the electoral college? That was put in place to appease
former southern slaveholders. Not to insure against election
fraud. The Electorial College should have been done away with
long ago. What an anti-democratic joke that is.
What`s wrong with the way California does its voting? I`ve
always just walked into a polling station and given my address
and name. No ID required. Nothing. Then I just take the ballot,
go into the booth, vote for every Democrat on the list, and for
every proposition that favors the people, like the one ending
any restrictions on rent control. It`s a streamlined process.
#Post#: 9050--------------------------------------------------
Re: Elections in the States
DIR By: NealC
Date: November 9, 2018, 5:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
@Alharacas
When I was a young Civil War 'scholar' at 9 years old I asked my
Grandmother about her Grandfather and his role in the Civil War.
She said he was a big man, with a red beard, and because he was
so large and imposing they had him carry the unit flag. She
went on that he was at Gettysburg, and then went on Sherman's
March through Georgia.
"Nana that's impossible!" I said with my scholarly voice.
"Everyone knows that Gettysburg was fought by the Army of the
Potomac, Sherman's army was totally different! What you say
cannot be true!"
She got all miffed at me "That is what he said and he was a very
religious man, he certainly would not lie to ME!"
Of course I later found out that what she said was true, and we
have been able to track our ancestor's military career fairly
easily. His unit was at Gettysburg and then was transferred to
join Sherman. The men in the unit called him "Big John" and the
flag he carried is on display at the Old Bethpage Village
Restoration. At the Gettysburg battlefield they have all the
markers up for the individual regiments (Company H, 119th NY
Volunteer Infantry!), so I went there several times and stood
where he stood. Not a great place to be, the Rebels were
working on surrounding them (again). I always feel a special
connection there. I actually proposed to my wife there as well
:-)
I did find out that although my ancestor might have been a
religious man and never told a lie my Grandmother might have
stretched the truth a bit for a good story. She was only 2
years old when he died!
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