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#Post#: 5471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anything you say
By: NealC Date: August 24, 2018, 6:23 pm
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With itchy and scratchy as the theme music.
#Post#: 5472--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anything you say
By: the lost minion Date: August 24, 2018, 6:36 pm
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[quote author=Truman Overby link=topic=415.msg5455#msg5455
date=1535116001]
When you play on that level - federal government - you have to
expect that everything that you've ever said will be used
against you. That's the way the game has always been played. The
stakes are high. Everything is under scrutiny.
[/quote]
The problem is the panoptical society. We've got most of our
communication going on online - and most of us already know it
is not private. So what happens to a man who knows he's
constantly watched? This is a panopticum. You know you are
watched, you don't know when, you can't see those who watch -
but you'll always uncertain. You're always the weak one. And all
that is human in you, all that is normal, can be dragged out on
a display and used against you. This is not a problem with
people leaking secret data, this is just a snippet of
information that is a problem of each and every one of us.
#Post#: 5473--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anything you say
By: the lost minion Date: August 24, 2018, 6:41 pm
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[quote author=SHL link=topic=415.msg5461#msg5461
date=1535133724]
So, these remarks were likely made to the press after sentencing
just as a propaganda ploy. You can see what a barbaric sentence
she got as it is.
[/quote]
It was pulled out of the court records, according to other
articles. And this one cites it in a context of prosecutors
preventing her release on bond - so I wouldn't be so sure (agree
that it is unclear here though).
#Post#: 5474--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anything you say
By: the lost minion Date: August 24, 2018, 6:47 pm
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Neal, the Office is a beautiful series. And Dwight is a
beautiful character. I'm touched.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-9NezvDV2w
#Post#: 5476--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anything you say
By: SHL Date: August 24, 2018, 6:53 pm
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Frog Lady
Who knows? On a bond motion a prosecutor could say anything.
That`s just how these guys operate. Without the actual trial
transcript you’re not going to know what a jury heard. A judge
might have heard it in an in camera hearing or something, but
she wasn’t being tried for hating America or facebook postings.
Half the country would have to be in prison if that were all
this were about. No, she had a security clearance and breached
it. It’s reminds me a little of the Snowden case. It´s really
not a big news story.
But apart from all that, are you willing to be my sponsor when I
write the Polish PM asking for asylum? I need letters of
recommendation. I`ve only got you and Pasha to rely on. ???
#Post#: 5477--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anything you say
By: the lost minion Date: August 24, 2018, 7:09 pm
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[quote author=SHL link=topic=415.msg5476#msg5476
date=1535154788]
Frog Lady
but she wasn’t being tried for hating America or facebook
postings.
[/quote]
I know that. That's not the point.
You don't need to trial people for what they think to see how
this is dangerous. If you can surveil them, the moment you need
something on them, you've got it.
[quote]
But apart from all that, are you willing to be my sponsor when I
write the Polish PM asking for asylum? I need letters of
recommendation. I`ve only got you and Pasha to rely on. ???\
[/quote]
Oh give me a break. Just come here and start teaching English.
Most of those so-called native teachers know nothing about
anything. The only qualification you need is English as your
native language and an IQ of a well-developed monkey. Start from
there and in a few years you're a European. Or that's what I
believe.
#Post#: 5478--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anything you say
By: NealC Date: August 24, 2018, 7:16 pm
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No problem Froggy, it's perfectenschlaage
#Post#: 5483--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anything you say
By: SHL Date: August 24, 2018, 8:06 pm
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Froggy,
You’re like a breath of fresh air. What a relief. You mean all I
have to do is teach English? That’s easy. But, I`ll have to
start studying what a gerund is in English (I slept though
English class in high school when I was 17 and I think I got a
mediocre grade) and a Phrasal verb or noun, or whatever they
are, and what else? Oh splitting infinitives. I don’t know what
that is, but someone on Italki said they had checked my posts to
see if I was splitting infinitives (God forbid) and they didn’t
see any. I didn’t even know they were talking about. All that is
just gibberish to me. But, hey, if it will get me in someplace
in Europe, I`ll learn it. Get out of this stupid law business,
which I hate. And you know there`s no problem with my IQ.
#Post#: 5484--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anything you say
By: SHL Date: August 24, 2018, 8:31 pm
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Government surveillance of everyone is an old thing that’s been
going on forever. In 1982, long before social media and the
internet, Gore Vidal said we were the most spied upon people by
our own government than any in the world, that even the Soviet
Union didn`t spy as much on its population as the US does on
its. It’s an old story. And yeah, that was Snowden`s message
that got him in hot water. It was only by some miracle that he
wound up in Moscow. Now, he’s been there for 5 years and is
eligible for Russian citizenship. He actually likes the US (God
only knows why) and wants to come back but can`t because they’ll
throw him in the slammer.
I always wondered what his day is like in Moscow. He must speak
Russian by now, or maybe he’s on Italki. And I’m sure the
Russians aren’t giving him any money. I think he makes money on
his skype speaking fees or something. Even if the guy got
Russian citizenship, that would only allow him to travel, but I
don’t think he’d be able to go anywhere without fear of getting
grabbed up by the US Government. Sad really.
#Post#: 5485--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anything you say
By: SHL Date: August 24, 2018, 9:35 pm
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Actually, Frog lady did raise any interesting legal question.
Could hatred of the US been behind this ladies`violating of her
security clearance? It’s sort of one of those law school
questions you might go around the room and debate. On the one
hand, it`s clearly a non-sequiter. Just because you hate America
doesn’t mean you’re going to violate the law. In fact, most
Americans who hate America never violate the law. I`m not going
to run a red light just because I hate America. That doesn’t
make any sense. Why? What’s that going to do? On the other hand,
I can see the prosecutors in this case trying to make case out
that this lady with a security clearance violated it because she
hated America. They would say that was her motive. But, it still
leaves me scratching my head thinking, „Ok, but why? What’s she
gaining by putting her neck on the chopping block?“
The defense would have had a hard case because the elements of
the crime are so easy to prove. The elements of the crime have
got nothing to do with loving or hating America. Snowden loved
America, but violated his security clearance out of moral
principles. It’s like the old war crimes argument, „I was only
following orders.“ It didn’t work for others in the past and
Snowden I suppose wasn’t going to fall in line on it. He’s one
of the rare ones in this respect. He didn’t follow orders
because it violated his conscious.
Frog Lady makes a good point about social media opening one up
to all sorts of problems, and like in this case, gave
prosecutors an argument of motive. But, its a little lame to
blame social media. Social media didn`t sink Snowden`s ship. In
the woman's case a private investigator could have easily
interviewed a few of the ladies´ friends and found out the same
thing. Her friends could have easily just said, „Oh yeah, she
hates American, etc.“ But the problem with that argument is that
motive is not an element of the crime. It doesn’t matter. They
would have convicted her even if she were a super-Patriot. Being
a patriot was clearly no defense. So, I could see many judges
not allowing evidence in as to her politics because it´s simply
irrelevant to the crime she was charged with. It has no
probative value to it and is highly prejudicial. It doesn’t
prove anything one way or the other. I`d be curious to know if
anyone ever postulated a motive. It doesn’t matter, but I would
be interested to hear from her about it. Now, the most obvious
motive would be money. I wouldn’t be surprised if it weren’t the
most common motive in these crimes. Did a foreign government pay
her off for some information she had IT thought was important?
That I can understand as a motive, but all the others, like
hating America are just VERY VERY weak.
What makes the story even more bizarre is the fact that people
who hate American NEVER get security clearances. EVER. Can you
imagine the kind of psychological screening, the background
checks, all the investigation that goes into giving someone a
security clearance? It would be unbelievable. They’d want to
know every thought that ever entered your head before giving you
a security clearance. Every dream you ever had and the details.
Social media? I`m sure they’d check that too, but that would
just be a tiny piece of the decision making.
Could you ever imagine me getting a security clearance? Like
never. They`d say „We’ll, SHL, you just keep going to your PSL
meetings in San Francisco, and voting for their candidates and
reading The Militant, and that`s fine with us.“ And as far as
America-hating Americans go, no one cares. No one pays any
attention to you. About all they’d say is „Oh, well if you hate
America, the airport`s over there pal, have a nice flight.“ The
only problem is there’s no where to go unless you are a rich
capitalist, like NealC, or have some family ties, or marry
someone from another country. Most countries in the world would
give you the boot back to the US after 3 months.
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