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#Post#: 5359--------------------------------------------------
Re: China's methods of controlling their populace
DIR By: the lost minion
Date: August 22, 2018, 8:01 am
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--- Quote from: NealC link ---
>
> I was with you until the last line.
>
> The assumption that I am choosing to be fat and sick, or
leading my children to be fat and sick just because I would like
my sugary fizzy drink without extra nanny state taxes is
ridiculous.
>
> F*ck the government. They have a job, the rest is up to me.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yeah, that is not my assumption. I understand where this
opposition comes from (I mean all this freedom rhetoric), but
you are opposing a restriction on soda sold to children, living
in a country full of irresponsible people who couldn't be
bothered to learn why children shouldn't even touch this sh*t,
let alone live on it, full of obese people and full of children
with ADHD whose symptoms - or their severity - happen to be
related to the sugar consumption. So...
I get it on a general level - you don't want the government to
rule your life, but I don't see you raising the issue of
legalizing drugs, do I? But why if it's exactly the same
problem? Well, I will tell you why: because in real life we
don't deal with abstract principles but real, down to earth and
very particular problems. That's why you don't mind the
government not letting people buy methamphetamine in every
drugstore.
So while we would agree on a general level, and especially in
the "F*ck the government" part, I just want to point out that
we're not drafting an essay on political philosophy here.
And this would also be the comment to your next question:
--- Quote ---
> Otherwise where do we draw the line between what is happening
in California, and what is happening in China?
--- End Quote ---
What happens in China is extreme, here you've got a restriction
on selling soda to children in restaurants (mind you, they can
bathe themselves in this sh*t as soon as they get out of the
restaurant, can't they?). So let's not get populistic here.
#Post#: 5360--------------------------------------------------
Re: China's methods of controlling their populace
DIR By: the lost minion
Date: August 22, 2018, 8:07 am
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--- Quote from: Truman Overby link ---
>
>
> The essential point that gets missed in these debates is what
is called in the law "The Police Power of the State." The State
has the power of life and death over you and less drastically,
the power to arrest and detain you for the rest of your life. No
large corporation holds these powers. Some believe that man is
essentially an ignorant life form that requires absolute and
complete domination from other humans in the form of government.
I for one believe that we possess free will. That includes the
freedom to make harmful choices. For those who love government
control of their lives, I always ask what thing do you enjoy
that would outrage you if the state took it away under the guise
of protecting you from yourself?
>
--- End Quote ---
Agreed, the state is a dangerous monster that needs to be under
constant control, otherwise it will tyrannize its people. What's
going on right now, I mean this outrage and debates etc., is a
part of this process. Of course the process itself has been
deteriorating for some quite time now... But in general, I
agree.
I disagree however with the free will part. People are too easy
to manipulate and the means to manipulate them are just too
efficient to rely on an old concept of a free will. If people
had free will, most of the problems we have as individuals in a
daily life wouldn't exist. That's the thing ---> Unless, of
course, we assume that this free will is something that works
only sometimes with some things. Then, maybe, it would hold
water.
#Post#: 5361--------------------------------------------------
Re: China's methods of controlling their populace
DIR By: Truman Overby
Date: August 22, 2018, 8:43 am
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--- Quote from: the Frog Lady link ---
>
> If people had free will, most of the problems we have as
individuals in a daily life wouldn't exist.
>
--- End Quote ---
Free will is choice. Choice in all matters. Some choices lead to
problems. If you argue against free will then you are arguing
that man is simply blown about by the winds of fate with no say
in his life.
I'm not saying that things always work out as we wish them to.
That's not the point of free will, as I understand it.
#Post#: 5363--------------------------------------------------
Re: China's methods of controlling their populace
DIR By: Truman Overby
Date: August 22, 2018, 9:28 am
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--- Quote from: the Frog Lady link ---
>
> That's why you don't mind the government not letting people
buy methamphetamine in every drugstore.
>
--- End Quote ---
Equating meth with sugar? Come now, Grzy Frog.
#Post#: 5364--------------------------------------------------
Re: China's methods of controlling their populace
DIR By: the lost minion
Date: August 22, 2018, 9:32 am
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--- Quote from: Truman Overby link ---
>
> [quote author=the Frog Lady link=topic=410.msg5360#msg5360
date=1534943227]
> If people had free will, most of the problems we have as
individuals in a daily life wouldn't exist.
>
--- End Quote ---
Free will is choice. Choice in all matters. Some choices lead to
problems. If you argue against free will then you are arguing
that man is simply blown about by the winds of fate with no say
in his life.
I'm not saying that things always work out as we wish them to.
That's not the point of free will, as I understand it.
[/quote]
No, there's more to free will. What is a choice? Is an
ill-informed decision a choice (as you see it)? Because a
manipulated person also makes choices. Are those choices a
manifestation of a free will? For now, let's assume that they
are. But is such a choice free? Not really.
So, since you have to agree you are never well-informed nor
fully aware of the agenda of the other players that may want to
use you/manipulate you, what difference is there between those
who manipulate you/the circumstances that influence you and the
"fate"? From your perspective? Is there really a difference? Are
your decisions really decisions or just products of the impulses
that were at play when you were making them - you were in a shop
hungry, smelling some artificial yummy smell and decided to have
a bucket of ice-cream. Hey, it was your choice, you wanted
ice-cream! Well, really?
Free will is a power to go either way. What human do is: make a
decision and then rationalize it. It's not free will. We are not
free in this sense.
#Post#: 5365--------------------------------------------------
Re: China's methods of controlling their populace
DIR By: the lost minion
Date: August 22, 2018, 9:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Truman Overby link ---
>
> [quote author=the Frog Lady link=topic=410.msg5359#msg5359
date=1534942872]
> That's why you don't mind the government not letting people
buy methamphetamine in every drugstore.
>
--- End Quote ---
Equating meth with sugar? Come now, Grzy Frog.
[/quote]
Where am I equating anything? I'm explaining how reasoning based
on abstract black and white principles differs from resolving
real-life problems. Hence the extreme, but adequate, example.
#Post#: 5374--------------------------------------------------
Re: China's methods of controlling their populace
DIR By: SHL
Date: August 22, 2018, 1:37 pm
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Neal can have his nitrite filled bacon if he likes. I have to
confess to liking it too, along with ham and cheese sandwiches.
But all this is simple. First, repeal all the mandatory seatbelt
and motorcycle helmet laws and laws against talking on the cell
phone while driving (hand-held), because these laws are
ridiculous infringements of basic freedoms. Yes, texting
while driving is dangerous so you can leave it alone I suppose.
I`d like the laws to go back to the way they were in the 70s era
actually. Life was better then, at least under Carter, in spite
of him being a capitalist, but that`s the best we can hope for I
suppose, until we can elect someone from the Party for Socialism
and Liberation so we can keep NealC fair with his workers and
not treat them like horses pulling ploughs getting whipped. I
wouldn’t be surprised if Neal didn`t support sending children
into coal mines if he thought he could make a buck out of it.
Shame. Shame on him.
We need more organ donors so repealing the motorcycle helmet
laws is a good start and it gives those people more freedom (I
don’t ride motorcycles by the way but I`d love to remove the
seatbelts from my car). Ban or levy a huge tax on all soft
drinks expect carbonated mineral water and Fanta (I like that
one because it has oranges in it so it`s healthy and they drink
it in Europe. So, use Europe as a model. European laws are sort
of the model laws, to clean up the mess the US has created.)
Next, ban all guns. Flat out ban them all. Jerry, you don’t have
to hunt squirrels, they´re not bothering you and you definitely
don’t need them for „home defense“. That’s the biggest joke
around.
And for kids with ADHD, the kids need doctors to prescribe
Addarall, or Dextroamphetamine, an amphetine drug, ( NOT that
horrible meth), which is legal with prescription to calm them
down from the soft drinks the US dishes out and all the sugar
they eat, which makes for an obese US population and makes the
US the embarrassment of the world, among other things. And the
Adarall will stop the appetite too and make these fat kids lose
weigh and look normal, and be more healthy, lessen diabetes,
etc., so that`s a plus. Frog lady has a medical background or my
guess is she`s a doctor so I`m sure she`d agree. Get the
capitalist kids under control.
And please bring back the plastic bags at the supermarkes. That
would be nice.
See, you wouldn’t have this problem under socialism because the
profit hungry producers of this junk food would not be allowed
to poison our kids for their profits. We`d have pure food,
fruits and vegetable and pork and beef and good healthy stuff.
Not capitalist potato chips and sodas.
#Post#: 5468--------------------------------------------------
Re: China's methods of controlling their populace
DIR By: NealC
Date: August 24, 2018, 4:38 pm
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We make our own bacon. No nitrates. Yummy.
As for pig slaughtering you can help out if you like. Most
farms with pigs have a 'pig killin' day.
Just bring your own chainsaw.
#Post#: 5486--------------------------------------------------
Re: China's methods of controlling their populace
DIR By: SHL
Date: August 24, 2018, 10:06 pm
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NealC
You are a cruel-hearted guy. I bet you`d even ride on the back
of a horse. How’d you like to be a horse treated in this
fashion. Such beautiful creatures too. Like Jim Jones said once,
„It´s too bad horses didn’t inherit the earth instead of
humans.“ He might have had a few too many barbiturates that day,
but the point was some people just don’t treat animals right.
And „pig killing day“? I don’t like brutality. ???
#Post#: 5489--------------------------------------------------
Re: China's methods of controlling their populace
DIR By: Susan
Date: August 25, 2018, 11:24 am
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--- Quote from: the Frog Lady link ---
>
>
> What happens in China is extreme, here you've got a
restriction on selling soda to children in restaurants (mind
you, they can bathe themselves in this sh*t as soon as they get
out of the restaurant, can't they?). So let's not get populistic
here.
>
--- End Quote ---
I don´t think it even went that far. From the way I read the
article, parents are still permitted to buy soda for the
children, it just can´t be marketed especially for children,
such as what is included in a ¨kid´s meal.¨
My husband commented to me about an old movie he saw in which
all the characters were smoking. We had almost forgotten the
day when there were not restrictions upon the advertisement and
sale of cigarettes to children. I do not see this new law as
fundamentally different than some of the other things our
government to limit businesses from encouraging things that are
known to be hazardous to our health.
Personally I want a market that is relatively free and that is
fair. Banning all the restaurants from marketing to children in
unhealthy manner does not seem to be in the catagory of
dangerous government to me. Personally, I would prefer they
banned the use of hydrogenated oils in food, but I know
realistically that is not going to happen in my lifetime.
Companies use them because it is a cheap and effective way to
make an unhealthy product that lasts longer. If they were
banned entirely from use in food, the food might cost just a bit
more, but we would all benefits because the companies would make
better, healthier products. But God forbid we infringe on
anyone´s right to have the texture of donut they have learned to
love.
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