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#Post#: 5270--------------------------------------------------
Why Venezuela needs real socialism
By: SHL Date: August 19, 2018, 4:22 pm
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NealC
See, what capitalism does to a person? You should be ashamed of
yourself. My goodness. You`re laughing all the way to the bank I
bet. Some humanitarian you are.
By the way, I chose to put you on the mailing list for „The
Militant“ as enlightenment for you. Even the name implies how
fair and balanced they are. Your favorite, Fox News, tells you
in the name alone you can`t trust them, like you can`t trust a
fox.
This week´s edition features an article, „Venezuela: Workers,
Farmers face effects of capitalist crisis.“ It talks about how
the capitalists conspired to cause the current economic crisis
in Venezuela. A good read.
Oops. I swore today I was going to try to curry favor with you
from now on Neal after you did come up with that excellent idea
of adopting me so I could get Italian citizenship. You know what
they say Neal, „a friend in need is a friend indeed.“
#Post#: 5272--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why Venezuela needs real socialism
By: NealC Date: August 19, 2018, 4:47 pm
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Yeah, as the French say "Everyone's your brother - until the
rent comes due".
I would love to read the article about how capitalism caused the
crisis in Venezuela, that would truly be amusing. In reality
that rag you're flogging would do better to draw as much of a
contrast as possible between real socialism and how capricious
and stupid Chavez was.
Chavez's prediction that oil would stay at $150/barrel is one of
the things that got me to invest in the oil market and ride the
price elevator down to $40. I made a killing on that. I am
such a great capitalist I sold thousands of barrels that I
didn't even own! It makes me laugh to think that maybe the
Venezuelan government was on the other side of the trade!
Bwahahahahahaha!
Hell I could be part of the capitalist conspiracy! I will
inform Bilderberg that "The Militant" is on to our fiendish
scheme!
#Post#: 5273--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why Venezuela needs real socialism
By: NealC Date: August 19, 2018, 5:13 pm
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Ok I read the article.
HTML https://themilitant.com/2018/08/18/venezuela-workers-farmers-face-effects-of-capitalist-crisis/
Basically their point is the Bolivar Socialists didn't go far
enough in their revolution by "expropriating" (read, "steal")
the mining, oil and heavy industry. They would have done better
if they had followed the example of Cuba and either killed,
imprisoned, or sent into exile all of the capitalists. And of
course also steal all their stuff. Chavez and Maduro dealt in
half measures, and therefore reaped a poor result.
Conceivably if they had followed the example of Cuba they could
right now also be experiencing something similar to Cuba's
economy, which of course is the envy of the Caribbean.
If mental gymnastics were an Olympic sport, these guys would
certainly grab the gold medal.
#Post#: 5279--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why Venezuela needs real socialism
By: Susan Date: August 19, 2018, 6:06 pm
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Well, I thought about starting a thread about Venezuela and its
¨economic reforms¨ today. I still may do so, but I went ahead
and read the article.
The government of Venezuela is not a capitalist government. The
government was democratic, but Hugo Chavez, the founder of the
Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela won in 1999 and began his
socialistic ¨reforms.¨ (I know you do not like Spanish, SHL, but
I have to break it to you that this is Spanish for ¨The United
Socialist Party of Venezuela.¨) He was a very charismatic,
populist, leftist candidate. His followers are known as
¨Chavistas¨, and the supporters of the current government, are
known as ¨Chavistas¨ among Venezuelans. The government took
control of the oil industry, dismantled most of the other
industry, and the government-run oil industry now provides more
the 95% of the revenue for the country. When he died, his
chosen successor, Nicolas Maduro, became President. He has
maintained his power through giving money, food, etc to his
supporters and has managed to control the army thus far. He has
put off elections and tried almost every type of fraud
imaginable. Nicolas Maduro has a long and well known history as
a criminal. My teachers tell me he was even a known bank robber
in his youth. One of his many reforms was replacing almost 100%
of the college educated employees in the oil industry with his
own uneducated people--- who do not even put much emphasis on
maintaining the infrastructure of oil industry. The government
is corrupt and inept at the same type, but blames all it´s ills
on the United States and capitalism.
My teachers tell me it is as if the people of Venezuela are
being held hostage by their own government. There is strict gun
control. Have you not seen pictures of the opposition
protesting with wooden shields, meanwhile motorcycle thugs that
are known Chavistas shoot at them. The electoral fraud is
rampant and Maduro is really more a dictator who runs a criminal
organization than a true President. This is what has happened to
the great experimient of Socialism in Latin America. I would
not be surprised if Chavistas provided the information for the
article.
The current economic ¨reforms¨ include a minimum wage hike of
3000%. Yesterday a teacher voice messaged me from the grocery
store where he was with many other panicked people who know what
this is going to mean for their hyperinflation. He later told
me his brother-in-law, a manager of a grocery store, was quite
stressed because it is illegal for them to close, it is illegal
for them to raise prices, and now they are supposed to raise the
wages of 3000% without raising their prices. The government is
know to imprison and torture their opposition, so the grocery
store was open. You dare call that a capitalistic society?
#Post#: 5281--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why Venezuela needs real socialism
By: Susan Date: August 19, 2018, 6:16 pm
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Actually, when I said the Venezulean government is inept, I
meant inept in handling the economy. Chavez benefitted from
high oil prices during this time as President. Maduro has not
been so fortunate. Maduro is quite adept in methods of
maintaining power, however, he is inept at running a governement
for the people. Actually, the government is so bad that the
only thing that makes sense is they are not really even trying
to help the people, but are only a mafia type organization
trying to extract as much money for themselves as possible. It
is far from the Socialist ideal that the people thought they
were getting.
#Post#: 5286--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why Venezuela needs real socialism
By: NealC Date: August 19, 2018, 7:50 pm
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Speaking seriously, Susan is exactly right and perhaps the
moderators could bring this over to a new thread so we can hear
a broader selection of views.
Defending what has gone on in Venezuela, and only criticizing
the half measures towards communism really makes the magazine
you are touting not much more than something to line the bird
cage with.
#Post#: 5289--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why Venezuela needs real socialism
By: SHL Date: August 19, 2018, 10:49 pm
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@NealC and Susan
Well, other than the things you mentioned, were there any other
things you didn`t care for about the article?
And, what was this reference to lining a bird cage with my
Magazine, Neal? Please.
Anyway, the word was the Bolivar Socialists appropriated (didn`t
„steal“- no need for hyperbole) the mining, oil and heavy
industry.
So, okay, Venezuela does have difficulties, we all know that,
but the whole situation is a bit complex. And, look how good
Cuba turned out? They did a pretty good job over there. I read
the article, but I`m going to have to go back and re-read it to
really appreciate the nuances of the piece.
And Susan, I don't dislike Spanish. It´s just not on my list of
„to learn“ languages at the moment.
#Post#: 5293--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why Venezuela needs real socialism
By: NealC Date: August 20, 2018, 12:12 am
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The Cuban Revolution brought basic education and healthcare to
the masses. Beyond that, the average Cuban earns $17-$30/month,
lives in poverty, and faces a human rights catastrophe.
Human Rights in Cuba
HTML https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba
Cuba's primary export is Doctors. They send thousands of
Doctors to Venezuela in return for heavily subsidized oil.
I really wish I had a medical degree in Cuba. I would make
$30/month and be forced to serve the state as a 21st Century
Medical "Hessian", to be deployed where the government sees fit,
for as long as it wants.
But as least I wouldn't have any student loans!
#Post#: 5294--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why Venezuela needs real socialism
By: NealC Date: August 20, 2018, 12:33 am
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"Expropriated"
You can even hear Chavez and Maduro use the word when they would
tour Venezuela and find some well run, exciting private
enterprise and just simply point at it and say "expropriated".
HTML https://youtu.be/jOjvJAfIMSI
Claiming that is stealing is "hyperbole"? What else do you call
it when the government takes your property without paying due
compensation? You know, the 5th Amendment?
Do you really think the government has the right to take it
without compensation? Because such theft is a cornerstone of
belief for the editors of your disgusting little rag of a
newspaper.
#Post#: 5295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why Venezuela needs real socialism
By: NealC Date: August 20, 2018, 12:42 am
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This is the primary conclusion of the article:
"The leaders of the Bolivarian Revolution never mobilized
working people to take control of production and the land and
replace the bourgeois government with a workers and farmers
government on the road to expropriating the capitalist class.
They rejected the revolutionary example set by workers and
farmers in Cuba. That is the only road that offers working
people the chance to confront the problems they face".
So the problem is they didn't steal it all. They did it half
way. Admit it Steve, that is what you believe. And the herds
of people who think just like you do.
Venezuela is clearly a case of a country that ran out of other
people's money. They didn't steal enough, and what they did
steal they didn't manage properly.
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