URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Even Greener Pastures
  HTML https://evengreener.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Forum Announcements
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 5061--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Trolls, shitposting, irresponsible users, lazy admin, permis
       sive moderator
       By: SHL Date: August 16, 2018, 6:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @Pasha and King
       Yes, I saw that redneck ignorant NRA fool before on Italki I
       think. I can understand him just fine, because I`ve heard these
       idiots all my life talking like this. I`d probably say he`s from
       rural Texas, maybe Arkansas, and is as dumb as a post and has
       never even been outside of the US in his entire life. He
       probably couldn`t even find Europe on a map if you asked him to
       point it out.
       This is just a classic example of NRA propaganda. It`s designed
       to appeal to rednecks from rural Middle America who are just gun
       lovers and brainless. The guy I saw, who I mentioned, was much
       younger, maybe in his 20s, but when he`s 50 I`m sure he`ll
       resemble this lunatic in the clip. These people usually have no
       college education, only high school, which is the equivalent of
       ending school at about 12 in Europe, and they get this sort of
       false sense of independence and power by owning a stockpile of
       guns and ammunition, which they normally don’t use for anything
       more than shooting holes in pieces of paper at a gun range
       someplace, and then they hang out at cowboy bars with other
       people like them, and talk about how tough they are because of
       all the guns they have.  They have none of the power they think
       they have and actually, I bet if you checked, very few or none
       have ever even served in the military. In fact, most people I
       have met who actually did serve in the military actually hate
       guns. These rednecks are not really much of a threat because
       they are disorganized and just really powerless blowhards.  Just
       big mouths with puffed up egos because of the stockpile of guns
       and ammo they have. They`re just an embarassment. I wouldn`t
       even accept a client like this. I would make an excuse to turn
       him away or send him to someone else because I frankly wouldn`t
       be able to stand being around a guy like this. Talking about
       „wrestling gators in Louisiana“ or whatever. What a nutcase. And
       what was all that other nonsense he was yapping about, people in
       middle America growing their own corn, or something equally
       meaningless and goofy, and they`re so proud because of it? It´s
       so stupid when I hear this garbage in goes in one ear and out
       the other. I`d rather not have their senseless palaver in my
       brain too long.
       I could barely understand the Japanese guy, but he`s right about
       the „culture“ of the US telling overweight women how great they
       look and everything we know to be untrue. It`s part of the
       fantasyland world they build for themselves to live in because
       their lives are so lacking in culture and knowledge of the world
       outside the US. It`s not too unlike the Mr. NRA Superman.
       #Post#: 5064--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Trolls, shitposting, irresponsible users, lazy admin, permis
       sive moderator
       By: NealC Date: August 16, 2018, 6:42 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The "redneck ignorant NRA fool" is Charlie Daniels.  Hell of a
       fiddle player.  Doesn't like Iran much.  He is from North
       Carolina.  Which is pretty far from Texas.
  HTML https://youtu.be/wBjPAqmnvGA
       To get to the fiddlin, skip to 2:33
       Charlie never served in the military, as he was too young when
       the democrats involved us in Korea (which a Republican ended),
       and a little too old when the democrats involved us in Vietnam
       (also ended by a Republican).
       Just helping with the facts.
       You may continue.
       #Post#: 5071--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Trolls, shitposting, irresponsible users, lazy admin, permis
       sive moderator
       By: SHL Date: August 16, 2018, 9:23 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Actually, after my last post I started to wonder if this video
       was really a pro-NRA piece or a just a parody, which was
       actually made by anti-NRA people, because it embraces every
       negative caricature about pro-NRA/gun rights people there is.
       Since NealC mentioned it was Charlie Daniels in the clip, which
       I noticed myself, I suppose it probably is real (I don’t care
       for Daniels`style of music so I didn’t pay any attention to
       him).
       See how dumb the pro-gun lobby is? If I wanted to produce a
       pro-NRA piece (which I would never do, since I am against the
       NRA and believe all guns should be banned for all purposes) it
       wouldn’t be that hard to do. As a lawyer I`m sort of trained how
       to put the best spin on difficult situations or hard-to-defend
       positions.  I`m surprised the NRA,  with all its money and
       supporters, couldn`t hire an expensive Wall Street advertising
       firm to put together a real propaganda piece that would look,
       superficially better. Think about it. They don’t need to win
       over the support of people like Charlie Daniels or those of his
       ilk. They’ve got them already. They need to win over the support
       of the opponents. If the NRA hired me to organize a propaganda
       piece (again, which I`d never do because I oppose them on moral
       grounds) here’s what I`d do. I`d film an attractive young,
       well-educated couple in their early 30s with maybe two young
       children by their side, ages 6 and maybe 8. I`d have them seated
       in a luxurious home on the sofa, with a view out the window of
       the ocean, and they`d speak clearly and intelligently and be on
       the West Coast somewhere (maybe Washington or Oregon). They`d
       introduce themselves as responsible gun owners who owned a
       couple of guns out of concern for the safety of their children,
       however, they kept them in locked boxes or a gun safe to which
       only the mom and dad had keys.  They`d explain in a calm voice
       that the guns are hidden from the children and out of reach, and
       that the kids don`t even know what the guns looked like or where
       they were. The ammo would be kept, according to the couple,
       separate from the guns in a locked container, also hidden from
       the kids. They`d explain they felt safer with the guns, because
       they lived quite a ways from the local police station and were
       afraid of brake-ins, again for their kids`sake. They`d say they
       took gun safety courses before acquiring the guns, and kept
       current on gun safety and use by going to a licensed and
       supervised gun range once a month. The kids would never be
       allowed to even see the guns at anytime.
       If you really wanted to spice it up, you`d throw in, as a
       sideline, that the couple met while finishing their PhD`s in
       molecular and cellular biology at a University and now work for
       a large pharmaceutical company or some company doing research
       into human genetics. You might also toss in that they just
       returned from their vacation, this year, to Paris, and that they
       both speak French fluently and maybe one or two other European
       languages other than English. They’d say they understood how
       Europeans felt otherwise about guns, but for them owning a gun
       or guns was the right decision because of their distance from
       local police, the slow response time they`d anticipate from
       police if they needed help to protect themselves and their
       children, and that in balancing the pros and cons, they decided
       having a gun in the home, as long as it was kept out of reach of
       the children, made sense to them. You might even have wife or
       husband say one or the other was on heart medication, but they
       kept their prescription pills in a childproof container and out
       of the reach of the kids, just like the guns.
       Then you might fade out the scene with a faint „We are the NRA“
       statement with an attactive and redesigned logo.
       See how much better than would come across? But, the Charlie
       Daniels video does the direct opposite by portraying every
       negative stereotype about the gun-totin redneck from the South
       or Texas. It turns people more off to the idea of gun ownership
       than in favor of it.
       At the moment I represent a guy who owns a gun and the other
       lawyer in the case is trying to tell the Judge the guy is
       leaving it around the house endangering his 5 year old daughter.
       It`s not true, so I`ve argued to the Judge that he keeps it in a
       locked container separate from the ammo in a place that is out
       of the child`s reach, and that the only reason he even has it is
       because his to-be-ex wife`s boyfriend has threaded his life.
       So, yeah. I can easily make these arguments, even though I
       personally oppose gun ownership. You just have to be smart about
       how you argue things. It`s not that hard to do.
       Now, the downside to all of this is that, an unloaded gun in a
       locked box, and ammo in a separately locked box, is highly
       unlikely to be of any use to these people in the event of a real
       break in. The home safety argument is only really valid if you
       could keep a loaded gun in quick reach in your home at all
       times. You`d need fast access to it, otherwise what good is it?
       So, in a pro-NRA propaganda piece you`d have to gloss over this
       obvious fact and not mention it and hope no one noticed. As to
       the reference to Iran, I wouldn`t touch it. It`s totally
       irrelevant to the issue of internal US civilian gun ownership
       and is obviously nothing but a cheap emotional appeal that
       serves no purpose anyway.
       It`s hard to believe pro-gun people could even produce a video
       like that and be serious about it. It has, as I said, quite the
       opposite effect on the listener who is an NRA opponent. I guess
       an easy way of looking at it would be to say in the video, the
       NRA was just preaching to the choir.
       #Post#: 5073--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Trolls, shitposting, irresponsible users, lazy admin, permis
       sive moderator
       By: NealC Date: August 16, 2018, 10:17 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think they roll out Charlie just for "preaching to the choir"
       or "rousing the troops".  This isn't a public outreach
       commercial unless it was designed for a specific audience, like
       it played as a commercial during a hunting/fishing show.  The
       NRA has plenty of slick Madison ave ads for outreach.
       I do disagree about the children, the way to get children to
       respect guns is thru supervised handling and instruction, not by
       hiding it from them.  If you have guns the kids are going to
       find them - didn't you find pretty much everything you parents
       tried to hide in the house?  I know I did.
       Personally I think gun safety courses are important and should
       be mandatory for children.  I almost blew my friend's head off
       when we found his father's hidden shotgun in the garage at 11
       years old.  You might not own a gun, but you might be neighbors
       with the Daniels family.
       #Post#: 5080--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Trolls, shitposting, irresponsible users, lazy admin, permis
       sive moderator
       By: SHL Date: August 16, 2018, 11:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @NealC
       Teaching a child about guns through a „gun safety course?“ You
       have got to be kidding. And at what age are they supposed to
       start this fantastic „course“, 10?
       I`ll tell you what. THAT argument would be a total loser in a
       California court, like the case I`m on right now. Seriously,
       Neal I do have to wonder what Universe you’re living in some of
       the time.  I tell you what. If I had told that Judge not to
       worry, oh my client took his 5-year daughter to a „gun safety
       course“ she`d have looked at me like I was out of my mind, or on
       LSD.  My client would not have his daughter at the moment if I
       had tried to argue that loser of an argument. But, I won and
       she`s with him now (most of the time) because I made the locked
       gun box/hidden argument. And he was VERY appreciative of me and
       my courtroom talents. Oh, wouldn`t her screwball lawyer (and he
       IS a screwball, btw) have just loved me to say that little gem
       of wisdom?
       I`ll keep that bit of advice in mind, Neal. A gun safety course.
       Brilliant, that way I`ll get more work when Child Protective
       Services (CPS) comes along and takes his kid away.
       #Post#: 5082--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Trolls, shitposting, irresponsible users, lazy admin, permis
       sive moderator
       By: NealC Date: August 16, 2018, 11:53 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You see?  That is where the NRA comes in handy!  They have a gun
       safety course aimed at grammar school age kids, including
       workbooks and cartoons!
       Really Steven it is common sense.  Kids can find guns that
       adults either do not store properly or maybe they come across a
       weapon used in a crime, like my brother did once.  The program
       for young kids is simple: stop, don't touch, run away, tell a
       grown up.  For older kids it gets more involved - treat every
       gun as if loaded, fingers off triggers, Never point it at people
       etc...
       All the policemen I know de-mystify gun ownership by having
       their children handle the unloaded weapon with careful
       supervision.  They all tell their kids if you ever want to see
       the gun, just ask me to help you.
       I'm sure your clients pay you for whatever mental gymnastics you
       have to do to advance their case, but gun safety training
       remains a good idea.
       At least in the rest of the country.
       #Post#: 5084--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Trolls, shitposting, irresponsible users, lazy admin, permis
       sive moderator
       By: NealC Date: August 16, 2018, 11:58 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       And hidden is just dumb.  That ain't gonna work with any kid
       worth his salt.
       Lock it up, yes.  Put it someplace safe, sure.  But gun safety
       training is still a big part of the equation.
       You missed it counselor.  Too bad you're too much of a commie to
       hire an assistant.  They might have pointed it out to you.
       #Post#: 5088--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Trolls, shitposting, irresponsible users, lazy admin, permis
       sive moderator
       By: SHL Date: August 17, 2018, 12:17 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @NealC
       Too much of a commie, huh? You won`t confess it, but I still
       suspect you have employees or something.
       Well, my „mental gymnastics“ saved the day for my client. Your
       argument would have been a dead bang loser. You can`t train kids
       about gun safety. That´s ridiculous. Come on. Your argument
       sounds like this. Remember the old All in the Family TV series?
       Typical Queens NY type person I suppose, Archie. When they
       started screening on airliners for guns, there was a scene where
       he said „There`s no need for metal detectors. Just pass out
       pistols to every passenger who gets on the plane. That way no
       one`s going to pull out a gun and try to pull a hijacking.“
       Of course, the logic of that got a good laugh, but it sounds
       just like your logic. Teach kids about guns, because God-forbid
       we ban them. You can`t trust kids like that. It`s silly.
       #Post#: 5090--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Trolls, shitposting, irresponsible users, lazy admin, permis
       sive moderator
       By: NealC Date: August 17, 2018, 12:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I do remember that episode, and I do remember laughing back in
       1972? 1974? when I first saw it.  Got a good chuckle just now
       too.
       I never hid the fact that I have employees, who do you think set
       up at Gen Con while I was holding the fort back in NY?  People
       love working for me.
       Well this is my 400th post, good to waste it on your continued
       education.  I am home (sick theoretically) and 3 hours ahead of
       you so I am off to bed.
       You should rest, your stupid clients might need you in the
       morning.
       #Post#: 5127--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Trolls, shitposting, irresponsible users, lazy admin, permis
       sive moderator
       By: SHL Date: August 17, 2018, 11:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @Neal, well about half of my clients are dummies, I must say,
       but some are ok, like the guy with the gun whom I saved. But, if
       the dumb ones pay their bills and are nice, It´s okay with me.
       And you had something to do with that GenCon silliness? That`s
       contibuting to the delinquency of minors in my book, or their
       brainlessness. And, people love working for you? That`s an
       interesting claim. Probably minimum wage and no overtime pay or
       benefits. You Don`t seem like you`ll full of the milk of human
       kindness to me, so I`m sure I can see that. Stealing their
       surplus value should make you ashamed of yourself.
       And, you never sent 400 posts? No you didn`t. I know you're
       learning form me, so I do have to give you credit for that. You
       do need to pay attention to my wisdom and thorough knowledge of
       the world and political theory. I can understand that, so I`m
       glad I can perform this public service to you. And you
       contributing  to my education? About gun classes for
       kindergartens? That was enlightening.
       *****************************************************
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page