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       #Post#: 19499--------------------------------------------------
       perspective from Ukraine or Europe?
       By: Susan Date: September 29, 2019, 11:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I do not know if Pasha still reads this forum but I have been
       wondering how the media and public opinion looks in the Ukraine,
       Russia, and European countries about the most recent inquiry
       into the policies and actions of Trump.
       This article gives a summary
  HTML https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/28/us/politics/how-a-shadow-foreign-policy-in-ukraine-prompted-impeachment-inquiry.html
       Here in the U.S. it is polarized,  with Fox News calling it a
       witch hunt.  I saw that the American public is split almost
       50/50 over whether this inquiry is a serious, legitimate concern
       or not?
       Can any of you give a perspective of how it looks to people
       outside the U.S.?  And especially any insights or how it is
       being portrayed in the Ukraine?
       #Post#: 19501--------------------------------------------------
       Re: perspective from Ukraine or Europe?
       By: NealC Date: September 29, 2019, 9:58 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I am wondering about the truth of the Trump narrative.  Was
       Biden's son mixed up in something shady over there?
       #Post#: 19503--------------------------------------------------
       Re: perspective from Ukraine or Europe?
       By: Pasha Date: September 30, 2019, 6:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Susan link=topic=1374.msg19499#msg19499
       date=1569776155]
       I do not know if Pasha still reads this forum but I have been
       wondering how the media and public opinion looks in the Ukraine,
       Russia, and European countries about the most recent inquiry
       into the policies and actions of Trump.
       This article gives a summary
  HTML https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/28/us/politics/how-a-shadow-foreign-policy-in-ukraine-prompted-impeachment-inquiry.html
       Here in the U.S. it is polarized,  with Fox News calling it a
       witch hunt.  I saw that the American public is split almost
       50/50 over whether this inquiry is a serious, legitimate concern
       or not?
       Can any of you give a perspective of how it looks to people
       outside the U.S.?  And especially any insights or how it is
       being portrayed in the Ukraine?
       [/quote]
       I do actually. I am surprised why Steve still didn't show up and
       started topic about another Trump's legal troubles and end of
       his presidency and how America becomes further corrupt like
       those Post-soviet countries.
       First. I have some language issues with words "Prosecutor" and
       "Attorney" . I  assumed that prosecutor is the role in a court
       and attorney is a  position in the government, a job title which
       usually represent prosecution in a court.    But in english
       versions of Ukrainian media they use word prosecutor as the
       position in the government . So General Prosecutor of Ukraine is
       a sorta equivalent job of US Attorney General. In
       Ukrainian/Russian it is one word
       "Прокурор"
       (prokuror, pro-koo-ror).
       So The General Prosecutor (or Attorney General) Shokin resigned
       in 2016 because of international pressure. If there is no real
       actions against systemic corruption, there will be no loans form
       IMF. This is how international pressure was portrayed in media.
       There was case, very controversial and loud in media, the case
       of the diamond prosecutors (attorneys?). Those guys were BUSTED
       with bribery of cash and diamonds and other stuff thus case got
       its name. The prosecution kinda stalled and didn't move further
       because apparently those guys are in a good relationship with
       Shokin  the General Prosecutor. The guy who actually bust them
       was sacked. The investigation is still  going  on and it is
       delayed and it is complicated. Whole Ukranian judicial system is
       basically a  mafia comprised of judges and prosecutors covering
       each other asses.
       Shokin was removed not because he was investigating  wrong
       company he was removed because he didn't do enough.
       Owner of the company which employed Biden's son was a
       pro-Yanukovich (the ousted president) oligarch, he held position
       in the government and that was quite beneficial to his business.
       After revolution, the corruption case was open against him but
       then he   manage to get onto good terms with a new
       administration and his case also kinda stalled and didn't move
       further long before Shokin was removed.
       #Post#: 19507--------------------------------------------------
       Re: perspective from Ukraine or Europe?
       By: Susan Date: October 1, 2019, 10:05 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you Pasha.  It does confirm for me that this whole thing
       is very complicated- or at least understanding what the context
       for the talks were is very complicated.  I just read that the
       U.S. approved the sale to Ukraine of Javelin missiles.  My
       husband is very suspicious of the timing of this sale,
       suspecting Trump is trying to keep the Ukrainian President from
       wanting to say anything that would hurt Trump politically.  But
       for me, it looks like the Ukrainian President had already
       expressed interest in buy the weapons, so I am not sure there is
       anything shady in the sale.
       I do think, as usual, Trump has responded horribly to the news.
       Neal,  I thought of you when I read a Republican rep saying that
       he had seen civil wars and Trumpīs comment about possible civil
       war was repugnant. Have you already made up your mind about
       whether you will support Trump for re-election?  Or will you
       wait and see what comes out of all this?
       #Post#: 19508--------------------------------------------------
       Re: perspective from Ukraine or Europe?
       By: NealC Date: October 2, 2019, 12:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Im still struggling with what Trump did wrong here.
       In my mind Biden's son is dirty - thrown out of the Navy for his
       conduct, soon after hired by a Ukrainian oil and gas company and
       paid millions despite having no corporate or oil and gas
       experience.  That is an attempt at buying influence, whether
       Biden sr knew about it is an interesting investigation.
       So Trump asks new Pres of Ukraine to check it out, maybe even
       leans on him a bit.  So?  Isnt that how politics is done?  Im
       trying hard to see the foul here.
       Because of the electoral college my vote counts for nothing in
       the Presidential Election.  The Presidency is more something
       that happens to me.  I still hate Trump personally.  I am still
       disgusted by fellow Christians who support him so blindly.  I am
       deeply disappointed he has accomplished so little.  But he
       remains right on taxes and trade and he pisses off the Chinese,
       which makes me giggle.  So I hope he wins.
       I wouldn't count Trump out yet, and look up on YouTube Giuliani
       interview on the Hannity program.  He made some good points.
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