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       #Post#: 19418--------------------------------------------------
       Green Zones... do they spoil the joy of travelling in Europe?
       By: MartinSR Date: September 12, 2019, 3:18 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The first time I came across it was when I saw the large green
       circles on windshields of the used cars some of my compatriots
       like to import from Germany. This spring I ordered one for my
       car, because we were travelling to Amsterdam with our friends
       and I didn't like the idea of getting a penalty ticket for
       entering any town in Germany (in order to eat a lunch or for
       some other typical tourist reason). On this occasion I installed
       the Green Zones app, and discovered that many other countries
       started to create such zones. For some of them you need a
       sticker on your windshield (like "Umweltplakette" in Germany)
       while the other use different concepts. Some of them are open
       for all cars meeting the low-pollution standard (class "6" in
       Europe), for the others you have to pay (especially when you
       have a Diesel engine), some of them are... let's say closed on
       Mondays and Wednesdays. When you travel in Europe by car and
       don't check all towns you want to visit, you may get a few
       tickets to pay, a few hundreds Euro each. Not because of the
       fact your car doesn't meet the requirements  - only because you
       haven't ordered the sticker or haven't registered in their
       database.
       In the beginning of this week my son went to Antwerp (B) by car
       with his friends. The decision was rather quick one so he had no
       time to order the German sticker for his car. So I advised him
       not to leave the highway in Germany. Before getting to Antwerp
       he called me and asked to check in the internet about zones in
       Belgium. Good move! In Belgium you have to register your car
       online in their database. There are cameras in Antwerp and
       Brussels which check it and may fine you by 150-350€. The more
       interesting thing is that when you register your car for
       entering Antwerp it DOESN'T mean you can go to Brussels, because
       each town has its own rules.
       I'm not against the limitations of the pollution in bigger
       towns, but it becomes a nightmare for a tourist. You can leave
       your car on a P+R parking and use the public transport... but
       you have to enter the zone to get to the parking. You can't just
       drop your car on a highway and walk into the town.
       If someone wanted to travel around the west of Europe,
       theoretically he would have to purchase several green zone
       stickers, highway payment stickers for some country, highway
       payment electronic devices and register online in dozens of
       databases. The windshield of your car would be completely
       covered with stickers.
       When you add different speed limits to obey and different
       mandatory car equipment in different countries (like e.g yellow
       jacket in one and orange in the other) it makes travelling
       across Europe in your car very risky.
       To end a story of my son journey. He called me today on his way
       back, and asked me to check if it is a green zone in Wuppertal,
       because his travel companion has some German ancestry and wished
       to visit his grandma there. Unfortunately I had to answer him -
       there is a zone there too, the grandma must wait for another
       occasion.
       #Post#: 19421--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Green Zones... do they spoil the joy of travelling in Europe
       ?
       By: NealC Date: September 13, 2019, 8:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Ridiculous.  What a power grab.  They really don't want you to
       use your car in Europe do they?
       I am sure some American political idiots are looking at this and
       rubbing their hands with glee.
       #Post#: 19428--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Green Zones... do they spoil the joy of travelling in Europe
       ?
       By: Chizuko hanji Date: September 13, 2019, 9:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I don't know much about cars, but I heard Diesel engine is not
       good for the environment and purchasing electric cars are
       recommended in some countries like China and India.
       I've read some articles in Japanese. It says,
       "Currently, diesel engine vehicles sold in Japan have the same
       level of cleanliness as gasoline vehicles. Please wipe the
       inside of the muffler of a diesel engine car with a tissue for a
       test. So much less soot than gasoline cars."
       I'm not sure this fact is worth trust because I don't drive.
       Environment issues are always controversial.
       The Green zone? Isn't it Red zone for the drivers who will have
       to get tickets?   ;)
       #Post#: 19440--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Green Zones... do they spoil the joy of travelling in Europe
       ?
       By: MartinSR Date: September 14, 2019, 3:38 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I really don't know what to think about modern diesel engines.
       We had a Diesel car once and I remember it was burning
       ridiculously low amounts of fuel comparing to standard
       (gasoline) car. Now I have a hybrid car with very low fuel
       consumption, but not as low as that Diesel.
       On the other hand I remember the exhaustion gases from the
       Diesel engine were so unpleasant that I avoided entering the
       garage with the back of the car.
       The opinions you can read in internet are contradictory.
       My son eventually registered for both Antwerp and Brussels, and
       found a point where he could purchase the German sticker. But I
       think it would be much better if these rules were the same for
       the whole EU. If one country or the other doesn't feel the need
       of limiting pollution in its towns, it's not a problem, but
       everyone should have a possibility to get the sticker while
       registering a new car in any European country, and this sticker
       should be valid for all countries. It would be much easier for
       everyone.
       The thing more ridiculous I read is that most of these
       ecology-friendly West European towns, plan to limit the allowed
       traffic to electric cars only in 2030. I have seen a lot of
       charging stations there, but not so much. And I afraid that
       poorer countries, like mine, would be excluded from
       possibilities of travelling to the West then. Let's say that I
       will be able to buy the electric car with comparable amount of
       money I spent for the hybrid (Now it's nor possible, but with
       the technology development it may be). Now I have no electricity
       in my rented garage, no charging stations at work or even on my
       way to work. I doubt it will change soon in my country. And I'm
       not sure about the real ecological benefits, while almost all of
       our electricity is made by burning the coal.
       #Post#: 19441--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Green Zones... do they spoil the joy of travelling in Europe
       ?
       By: Aliph Date: September 14, 2019, 6:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This seems very complicated to me. I do not drive around in a
       car when in Europe. But I am not supposed to talk about my
       trips, some users here do not like it.
       #Post#: 19445--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Green Zones... do they spoil the joy of travelling in Europe
       ?
       By: MartinSR Date: September 14, 2019, 6:28 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Nobody, a fake and a liar
       link=topic=1366.msg19441#msg19441 date=1568458994]
       This seems very complicated to me. I do not drive around in a
       car when in Europe.
       [/quote]
       Well. I haven't seen any information about the Green Zones in
       your country. The problem for any potential tourist coming to it
       in the car is, that he has to pay for the whole year of using
       motorways, even if he comes for a couple of days. At least it
       was like that when I checked it last time ;)
       #Post#: 19447--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Green Zones... do they spoil the joy of travelling in Europe
       ?
       By: Aliph Date: September 14, 2019, 6:38 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=MartinSR link=topic=1366.msg19445#msg19445
       date=1568460494]
       [quote author=Nobody, a fake and a liar
       link=topic=1366.msg19441#msg19441 date=1568458994]
       This seems very complicated to me. I do not drive around in a
       car when in Europe.
       [/quote]
       Well. I haven't seen any information about the Green Zones in
       your country. The problem for any potential tourist coming to it
       in the car is, that he has to pay for the whole year of using
       motorways, even if he comes for a couple of days. At least it
       was like that when I checked it last time ;)
       [/quote]
       It’s still like that. Motorways are toll free unlike in Italy
       and it’s only a drive through country, though I think it’s
       heaven on earth. The whole summer foreign cars heading south
       block the Highways, it seems logical that they also contribute a
       little bit to the maintenance. One can buy the sticker for the
       tax in any shop on the highway, it’s valid for the year. So it
       isn’t difficult.
       #Post#: 19450--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Green Zones... do they spoil the joy of travelling in Europe
       ?
       By: MartinSR Date: September 14, 2019, 7:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Nobody, a fake and a liar
       link=topic=1366.msg19447#msg19447 date=1568461083]
       [quote author=MartinSR link=topic=1366.msg19445#msg19445
       date=1568460494]
       [quote author=Nobody, a fake and a liar
       link=topic=1366.msg19441#msg19441 date=1568458994]
       This seems very complicated to me. I do not drive around in a
       car when in Europe.
       [/quote]
       Well. I haven't seen any information about the Green Zones in
       your country. The problem for any potential tourist coming to it
       in the car is, that he has to pay for the whole year of using
       motorways, even if he comes for a couple of days. At least it
       was like that when I checked it last time ;)
       [/quote]
       It’s still like that. Motorways are toll free unlike in Italy
       and it’s only a drive through country, though I think it’s
       heaven on earth. The whole summer foreign cars heading south
       block the Highways, it seems logical that they also contribute a
       little bit to the maintenance. One can buy the sticker for the
       tax in any shop on the highway, it’s valid for the year. So it
       isn’t difficult.
       [/quote]
       I agree it is one of the simplest way to pay the highway tax. I
       even heard that it is not very expensive comparing to the yearly
       cost of using highways in other countries. I only mean that when
       someone just wants to spend a few hours or days in your country,
       has to pay for the whole year. And this cost is much higher than
       e.g. 10-days vignette in Austria. Maybe it is a way to reduce
       this summer transit traffic that you mentioned.
       #Post#: 19453--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Green Zones... do they spoil the joy of travelling in Europe
       ?
       By: NealC Date: September 14, 2019, 8:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Nobody, a fake and a liar
       link=topic=1366.msg19441#msg19441 date=1568458994]
       This seems very complicated to me. I do not drive around in a
       car when in Europe. But I am not supposed to talk about my
       trips, some users here do not like it.
       [/quote]
       Sometimes people can be silly.  I, for one, love to hear about
       your trips :-)
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