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#Post#: 18744--------------------------------------------------
Recent EGP Events SPLIT FROM Law Against Movements Oppressing Hu
man Rights vs Free Speech
By: Truman Overby Date: July 29, 2019, 10:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1276.msg18694#msg18694 date=1564142176]
[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1276.msg18691#msg18691 date=1564141297]
[quote author=SHL link=topic=1276.msg18686#msg18686
date=1564140411]
Talk about censorship, look at how Jerry is trying to censor my
free speech, just because I said something positive about
socialism.
[/quote]
Au contraire mon frère. I suggested that you start your own
socialism/communism/US-hating forum. How is that censorship?
That's an endorsement of your free speech rights.
This appears to be quite unnecessary, Susanne. It's your opinion
that I have nothing to contribute. If I want to be on italki
then I'll go to italki and have overbearing, power-hungry
censors monitor my words and scold me. I don't need this crap. I
had no idea that EGP would turn into a place where I'd have such
a hateful thing inserted into my post.
Oh, and good luck attracting new members when they see this sort
of thing.
Now I finally see why Guyomar won't have anything to do with
this forum.
[/quote]
After careful consideration of the Rules that Neal posted a few
months ago, it is clear that Susanne engaged in a violation of
the Rule that proscribes harsh language towards other users. I
am therefore invoking the Gryzbek Doctrine and asking for a
public apology from Susanne for her violation of the rule which
forbids harsh language toward another user.
Exhibit A:
HTML https://ibb.co/0nSvb1f
#Post#: 18745--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recent EGP Events SPLIT FROM Law Against Movements Oppressin
g Human Rights vs Free Speech
By: Irena Date: July 29, 2019, 11:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Jerry, I am actually far more bothered by the fact that she
edited your post. It sets quite a precedent. I certainly
wouldn't want it to appear that I wrote something I didn't
write. I wonder why administrators even have the right to edit
other people's posts. ??? Delete - okay. Edit - yikes! It
really crossed a line. Maybe it's time to throw in the towel and
leave this forum.
#Post#: 18746--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recent EGP Events SPLIT FROM Law Against Movements Oppressin
g Human Rights vs Free Speech
By: Truman Overby Date: July 29, 2019, 11:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18745#msg18745
date=1564416551]
Jerry, I am actually far more bothered by the fact that she
edited your post. It sets quite a precedent. I certainly
wouldn't want to it appear that I wrote something I didn't
write. I wonder why administrators even have the right to edit
other people's posts. ??? Delete - okay. Edit - yikes! It
really crossed a line. Maybe it's time to throw in the towel and
leave this forum.
[/quote]
Yes, that shook me up when I saw it. It was quite shocking. It
was done with no warning or notice to me after the fact. Thank
you for your support, Irena.
#Post#: 18757--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recent EGP Events SPLIT FROM Law Against Movements Oppressin
g Human Rights vs Free Speech
By: NealC Date: July 29, 2019, 10:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I am sorry this entire incident occurred.
Editing a post is not something that should be used lightly, as
soon as I saw the edit I asked Alharacas to remove it.
I firmly believe in our rule about keeping politics on their own
threads so I understand Alharacas' frustration, especially after
giving a separate post warning the day before this incident.
But I do agree with the members that a post edit was a step too
far.
Alharacas has decided to step away from her role as
Administrator, she has asked me to replace her. It is my hope
that she does not step away from posting on the forum as I felt
she always had thought provoking things to say, and I found her
new posts about learning Persian to be very interesting.
I am not going to require a public apology in this case, because
in my opinion I do not think the words were meant to be
personally insulting or demeaning. It was a comment about
behaviour, not about character. I encourage both sides to
interact personally to clear the air between them, this forum is
far too small for bad blood.
It is obvious this issue is important to the membership, I will
enshrine a "No Editing by the admin or moderators will be
permitted" rule into our rather small rules section.
#Post#: 18759--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recent EGP Events SPLIT FROM Law Against Movements Oppressin
g Human Rights vs Free Speech
By: SHL Date: July 30, 2019, 12:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=NealC link=topic=1276.msg18757#msg18757
date=1564456078]
I am sorry this entire incident occurred.
Editing a post is not something that should be used lightly, as
soon as I saw the edit I asked Alharacas to remove it.
I firmly believe in our rule about keeping politics on their own
threads so I understand Alharacas' frustration, especially after
giving a separate post warning the day before this incident.
But I do agree with the members that a post edit was a step too
far.
Alharacas has decided to step away from her role as
Administrator, she has asked me to replace her. It is my hope
that she does not step away from posting on the forum as I felt
she always had thought provoking things to say, and I found her
new posts about learning Persian to be very interesting.
I am not going to require a public apology in this case, because
in my opinion I do not think the words were meant to be
personally insulting or demeaning. It was a comment about
behaviour, not about character. I encourage both sides to
interact personally to clear the air between them, this forum is
far too small for bad blood.
It is obvious this issue is important to the membership, I will
enshrine a "No Editing by the admin or moderators will be
permitted" rule into our rather small rules section.
[/quote]
Neal,
There is a VERY fitting saying (Sprichwort) in German for what
happened here the other day:
„Der Ton macht die Musik.“ Literally, „the sound makes the
music“
English equivalent: „It’s not what you say, but HOW you say it.“
#Post#: 18760--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recent EGP Events SPLIT FROM Law Against Movements Oppressin
g Human Rights vs Free Speech
By: Nikola Date: July 30, 2019, 3:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Now that Neal has made a statement regarding the incident, I'd
like to say a few words. What happened here was unacceptable and
Neal and I were on the same page about this from the beginning.
If disabling the editing of comments is what it takes to stop
any such abuse of power from happening in the future, then I
think putting this rule in place is not only a good idea but
also a very clear signal that we don't take this lightly and
that we care. This will not happen again.
Jerry has made a reasonable request given the circumstances and
I'd like to point out that the issue isn't over until he
communicates how he feels about the decision. As they say, it
ain't over till fat lady sings. I don't want anyone to feel that
their voice isn't heard. This is how we could lose members. I
hope we haven't lost any yet. Irena, please stay.
#Post#: 18763--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recent EGP Events SPLIT FROM Law Against Movements Oppressin
g Human Rights vs Free Speech
By: Aliph Date: July 30, 2019, 4:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1276.msg18744#msg18744 date=1564414079]
[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1276.msg18694#msg18694 date=1564142176]
[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1276.msg18691#msg18691 date=1564141297]
[quote author=SHL link=topic=1276.msg18686#msg18686
date=1564140411]
Talk about censorship, look at how Jerry is trying to censor my
free speech, just because I said something positive about
socialism.
[/quote]
Au contraire mon frère. I suggested that you start your own
socialism/communism/US-hating forum. How is that censorship?
That's an endorsement of your free speech rights.
This appears to be quite unnecessary, Susanne. It's your opinion
that I have nothing to contribute. If I want to be on italki
then I'll go to italki and have overbearing, power-hungry
censors monitor my words and scold me. I don't need this crap. I
had no idea that EGP would turn into a place where I'd have such
a hateful thing inserted into my post.
Oh, and good luck attracting new members when they see this sort
of thing.
Now I finally see why Guyomar won't have anything to do with
this forum.
[/quote]
After careful consideration of the Rules that Neal posted a few
months ago, it is clear that Susanne engaged in a violation of
the Rule that proscribes harsh language towards other users. I
am therefore invoking the Gryzbek Doctrine and asking for a
public apology from Susanne for her violation of the rule which
forbids harsh language toward another user.
Exhibit A:
HTML https://ibb.co/0nSvb1f
[/quote]
What the hell happened!? :o >:( :(
One cannot go to vacation two days from this board without
loosing track? Neal C just published and amendement to the
rules? Can please somebody explain in a concise manner?
#Post#: 18764--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recent EGP Events SPLIT FROM Law Against Movements Oppressin
g Human Rights vs Free Speech
By: Aliph Date: July 30, 2019, 4:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What the hell happened!? :o >:( :(
One cannot go to vacation two days from this board without
loosing track? Neal C just published and amendement to the
rules? Can please somebody explain in a concise manner?
#Post#: 18765--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recent EGP Events SPLIT FROM Law Against Movements Oppressin
g Human Rights vs Free Speech
By: NealC Date: July 30, 2019, 5:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The link Jerry posted is what occurred, on Friday I believe.
The part in red was edited in to Jerry's post by Alharacas.
When I came in on Friday I asked Alharacas to remove the edit.
I myself edited the quote out of one of Jerry's responses and I
emailed Jerry to explain myself. I had hoped that would end the
problem, I was wrong. I did not understand how strong the
response was felt to the original edit.
You see I have belonged to several forums where comment edits
from admins or monitors right into member posts was how the
forum was moderated. It was always clear and obvious where the
moderators had posted so there was no confusion. I cannot
change the fact that admins will always have that power, that is
set by the software and as far as i know is a feature of every
forum everywhere. What I can do is make this a one admin site,
and set it so moderators do not have the edit functionality.
Then I can promise as sole admin to never edit a post again.
This is not a problem for me as I dont think post editing fits
into what we are about anyway.
The 'rule by consensus' part of the forum will simply continue
by admin working with the moderators.
I was very pleased with the recent direction of the forum, I
think Nikola's language challenge was excellent, members have
been posting great links to resources, some great personal
experience in learning stuff. It is my hope we can put this
behind us, and move forward in serving the membership.
#Post#: 18766--------------------------------------------------
Re: Recent EGP Events SPLIT FROM Law Against Movements Oppressin
g Human Rights vs Free Speech
By: Nikola Date: July 30, 2019, 6:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This problem has been resolved now. Thanks Neal.
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