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#Post#: 18674--------------------------------------------------
Re: Law Against Movements Oppressing Human Rights vs Free Speech
SPLIT FROM Back to Angela Davis
By: Truman Overby Date: July 26, 2019, 5:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1276.msg18672#msg18672
date=1564137424]
[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1276.msg18668#msg18668 date=1564137092]
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18667#msg18667
date=1564136867]
[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1276.msg18666#msg18666 date=1564136731]
If you go to the bottom of this page, Steve, you'll see that it
says Create your own free forum at CreateAForum.com
I'm sure there a few others out there who share your radical
views and would love to discuss them with you. Or is it more fun
for you to try and convert the un-convertible than it is to
preach to the choir?
[/quote]
Steve's latest post strikes me as very reasonable.
[/quote]
One out of thousands and thousands of posts. One. Prediction:
He'll see that you called it reasonable, realize his mistake,
and follow it up with something off the deep end. Stay tuned.
[/quote]
We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
[/quote]
Good luck with that. Steve doesn't build bridges.
#Post#: 18675--------------------------------------------------
Re: Law Against Movements Oppressing Human Rights vs Free Speech
SPLIT FROM Back to Angela Davis
By: Truman Overby Date: July 26, 2019, 5:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18673#msg18673
date=1564137511]
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1276.msg18670#msg18670
date=1564137220]
Irena, I agree with you on the whole but I also agree with what
you said yesterday: "As I see it, if you're going to restrict
free speech, you need to have very compelling reasons for doing
so. Credible threats and incitement to violence should be
unacceptable." And I really think this is the case and as such,
should be treated as an exception. I am against restricting free
speech in any other cases for the same reasons that you mention.
[/quote]
But fiddling with the number of Holocaust victims is not a call
to violence. At most, it may be accompanied by a call to
violence, but in and of itself, that's not what it is.
[/quote]
Please define 'fiddling.' That's probably not the best word to
use when speaking of millions of people murdered in a genocide.
And please let the Holocaust victims be. We just lost a
Holocaust survivor here in Indiana a few weeks ago. She was an
incredible woman.
#Post#: 18676--------------------------------------------------
Re: Law Against Movements Oppressing Human Rights vs Free Speech
SPLIT FROM Back to Angela Davis
By: Irena Date: July 26, 2019, 5:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1276.msg18675#msg18675 date=1564137684]
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18673#msg18673
date=1564137511]
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1276.msg18670#msg18670
date=1564137220]
Irena, I agree with you on the whole but I also agree with what
you said yesterday: "As I see it, if you're going to restrict
free speech, you need to have very compelling reasons for doing
so. Credible threats and incitement to violence should be
unacceptable." And I really think this is the case and as such,
should be treated as an exception. I am against restricting free
speech in any other cases for the same reasons that you mention.
[/quote]
But fiddling with the number of Holocaust victims is not a call
to violence. At most, it may be accompanied by a call to
violence, but in and of itself, that's not what it is.
[/quote]
Please define 'fiddling.' That's probably not the best word to
use when speaking of millions of people murdered in a genocide.
And please the Holocaust victims be. We just lost a Holocaust
survivor here in Indiana a few weeks ago. She was an incredible
woman.
[/quote]
Minimizing the number of people killed in the Holocaust is not,
in and of itself, a call to violence. That doesn't mean I "like"
people who do this, or that I approve of their actions, or that
I think they should be invited to give speeches at universities,
or that they shouldn't be ridiculed. I just think they shouldn't
be imprisoned or fined, and I explained why I think that.
#Post#: 18677--------------------------------------------------
Re: Law Against Movements Oppressing Human Rights vs Free Speech
SPLIT FROM Back to Angela Davis
By: Nikola Date: July 26, 2019, 5:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18673#msg18673
date=1564137511]
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1276.msg18670#msg18670
date=1564137220]
Irena, I agree with you on the whole but I also agree with what
you said yesterday: "As I see it, if you're going to restrict
free speech, you need to have very compelling reasons for doing
so. Credible threats and incitement to violence should be
unacceptable." And I really think this is the case and as such,
should be treated as an exception. I am against restricting free
speech in any other cases for the same reasons that you mention.
[/quote]
But fiddling with the number of Holocaust victims is not a call
to violence. At most, it may be accompanied by a call to
violence, but in and of itself, that's not what it is.
[/quote]
Not directly, no. Technically, the part about not supporting
movements oppressing human rights should cover this anyway,
should anyone question the numbers in order to justify a
particular ideology.
#Post#: 18678--------------------------------------------------
Re: Law Against Movements Oppressing Human Rights vs Free Speech
SPLIT FROM Back to Angela Davis
By: Truman Overby Date: July 26, 2019, 5:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18676#msg18676
date=1564138198]
Minimizing the number of people killed in the Holocaust is not,
in and of itself, a call to violence.
[/quote]
In can be, depending on who the audience is. You don't think
that sort of speech is intended to rile up the radicals who hear
it? Come now. People like that aren't merely presenting a
history lesson. Let's get out of the ivory tower and get real.
#Post#: 18679--------------------------------------------------
Re: Law Against Movements Oppressing Human Rights vs Free Speech
SPLIT FROM Back to Angela Davis
By: Irena Date: July 26, 2019, 5:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1276.msg18677#msg18677
date=1564138554]
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18673#msg18673
date=1564137511]
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1276.msg18670#msg18670
date=1564137220]
Irena, I agree with you on the whole but I also agree with what
you said yesterday: "As I see it, if you're going to restrict
free speech, you need to have very compelling reasons for doing
so. Credible threats and incitement to violence should be
unacceptable." And I really think this is the case and as such,
should be treated as an exception. I am against restricting free
speech in any other cases for the same reasons that you mention.
[/quote]
But fiddling with the number of Holocaust victims is not a call
to violence. At most, it may be accompanied by a call to
violence, but in and of itself, that's not what it is.
[/quote]
Not directly, no. Technically, the part about not supporting
movements oppressing human rights should cover this anyway,
should anyone question the numbers in order to justify a
particular ideology.
[/quote]
I wonder what you mean by human rights then. Because I'd think
that freedom of speech would be one of them.
#Post#: 18680--------------------------------------------------
Re: Law Against Movements Oppressing Human Rights vs Free Speech
SPLIT FROM Back to Angela Davis
By: Irena Date: July 26, 2019, 6:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1276.msg18678#msg18678 date=1564138743]
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18676#msg18676
date=1564138198]
Minimizing the number of people killed in the Holocaust is not,
in and of itself, a call to violence.
[/quote]
In can be, depending on who the audience is. You don't think
that sort of speech is intended to rile up the radicals who hear
it? Come now. People like that aren't merely presenting a
history lesson. Let's get out of the ivory tower and get real.
[/quote]
Okay, Jerry. I suggest you start a movement to repeal your Bill
of Rights, or at least the First Amendment.
#Post#: 18681--------------------------------------------------
Re: Law Against Movements Oppressing Human Rights vs Free Speech
SPLIT FROM Back to Angela Davis
By: Truman Overby Date: July 26, 2019, 6:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18679#msg18679
date=1564138793]
I wonder what you mean by human rights then. Because I'd think
that freedom of speech would be one of them.
[/quote]
I would guess that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights,
passed after World War II, [ or as some of us call it, The War ]
covers the definition of human rights. Most likely that's the
foundation document used for laws that cover human rights.
#Post#: 18682--------------------------------------------------
Re: Law Against Movements Oppressing Human Rights vs Free Speech
SPLIT FROM Back to Angela Davis
By: Truman Overby Date: July 26, 2019, 6:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18680#msg18680
date=1564138941]
[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1276.msg18678#msg18678 date=1564138743]
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18676#msg18676
date=1564138198]
Minimizing the number of people killed in the Holocaust is not,
in and of itself, a call to violence.
[/quote]
In can be, depending on who the audience is. You don't think
that sort of speech is intended to rile up the radicals who hear
it? Come now. People like that aren't merely presenting a
history lesson. Let's get out of the ivory tower and get real.
[/quote]
Okay, Jerry. I suggest you start a movement to repeal your Bill
of Rights, or at least the First Amendment.
[/quote]
You know that's not what I meant at all. I'm just trying to be
precise.
#Post#: 18683--------------------------------------------------
Re: Law Against Movements Oppressing Human Rights vs Free Speech
SPLIT FROM Back to Angela Davis
By: Nikola Date: July 26, 2019, 6:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1276.msg18679#msg18679
date=1564138793]
I wonder what you mean by human rights then. Because I'd think
that freedom of speech would be one of them.
[/quote]
Free speech as a human right applies as long as it's not aimed
at violating other people's human rights. Otherwise it would be
like saying that one person's rights are more important than
others'.
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