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#Post#: 17142--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quite frankly, I am encouraged by this
By: Irena Date: June 25, 2019, 1:14 pm
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[quote author=The Artist formerly known as Truman Overby
link=topic=1173.msg17140#msg17140 date=1561485135]
[quote author=SHL link=topic=1173.msg17134#msg17134
date=1561480601]
Please the concept of someone being „illegal“ is an
inappropriate word
[/quote]
Steve, the term 'illegal alien' is a legal term. Surely you know
that. Trump didn't make it up to make people feel bad. It has a
long history as a term in the law. It goes way back to before we
were an independent nation. I would bet that it's part of our
legal heritage from England.
[/quote]
Alien. Right. I remember it took me a while to get used to being
a "nonresident alien" back when I was in the States. ::)
Actually, I wonder about the etymology now. When did people
start referring to non-earthlings as "aliens"? Is it a recent
thing?
ETA: Aha! Here it is:
HTML https://www.etymonline.com/word/alien
From the page I linked to:
[quote]Meaning "residing in a country not of one's birth" is
from mid-15c. Sense of "wholly different in nature" is from
1670s. Meaning "not of this Earth" first recorded 1920.[/quote]
#Post#: 17143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quite frankly, I am encouraged by this
By: Truman Overby Date: June 25, 2019, 2:15 pm
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[quote author=Irena link=topic=1173.msg17138#msg17138
date=1561482543]
Still, I find it strange that you prefer to just turn a blind
eye to "undocumented" immigrants, rather than legalize their
situation in one way or another (at least for some reasonably
high percentage of them). Why?
[/quote]
The question is why should people who decided to enter my
country ILLEGALLY be rewarded with citizenship? Citizenship
shouldn't be awarded to people like it's no more valuable than a
sandwich. It's an outrage to me when I hear people say "just
give them citizenship!" What makes you or anyone else believe
that US citizenship should be handed out like candy? People
fought and died so that this nation would be a place to live for
people who value it. You don't just stroll across a border and
say "I'm here, give me citizenship!" That's insanity.
You don't get to say "I broke into the US in order to have a
better life." Big freakin' deal. That isn't how it works. That
provision is not in the law. I want for me and my fellow
Americans to have a better life. THAT COMES FIRST. This is our
country. We were born here.
Steve, imagine this: You come home from your law office after
your tortuous five hour shift to find a guy sitting in your easy
chair drinking your Scotch while watching your massive TV. What
do you do? If you're true to your beliefs, you move out because
he's told you that he wants a better life. And your { former }
house will provide him just that.
And what about the people who do it the LEGAL way? Are they
suckers? No, I don't want citizenship status to be cheapened in
any fashion. No where else in the world can you break into a
country as they do on our border and get away with what these
people get away with. We have laws that cover this sort of
thing. They need to be enforced and Trump is attempting to do
that even though the Democrats want our country to be taken over
by ILLEGALS. The Democrats want future voters for the Democrat
party. That's a simple fact.
#Post#: 17144--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quite frankly, I am encouraged by this
By: Irena Date: June 25, 2019, 2:21 pm
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Jerry, your country wound up with 10-12 million undocumented
(happy, Steve? ;) ) immigrants to a large extent because plenty
of Americans found those people useful. Well, now they're there,
and some of them have been for years or even decades. Sure, you
could deport them all. It wouldn't be pretty.
Scale matters. You do not handle 10-12 million undocumented
immigrants the way you would handle 10-12 thousand. It just
doesn't work that way. You could deport 10-12 thousand people,
and almost no-one would even notice. Unfortunately for you, the
problem is three orders of magnitude greater than that. It
wasn't handled in a timely fashion, and so now, some sort of
amnesty is called for. Otherwise, well, expect a lot of
disruption, that's all I can say.
#Post#: 17151--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quite frankly, I am encouraged by this
By: SHL Date: June 25, 2019, 7:57 pm
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Yes, this is a problem that has been brewing for years, decades
even, and there aren’t any easy answers to complicated
questions.
True, all countries have immigration controls and they all are
enforce them to one extent or the other. The EU certainly does.
I get that.
But, Irena, your point is well taken. Like any problem, if you
wait to long to work on it, like the US did, the more difficult
a solution becomes.
#Post#: 17165--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quite frankly, I am encouraged by this
By: NealC Date: June 26, 2019, 3:34 am
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But what really angers me Steven is the politicians have been
promising since the 80's they would be handling immigration in a
comprehensive way and they have not done it. Some look the
other way because they are bought and paid for by corporate
interests that want the cheap labor, others figure the aliens
will eventually vote for their party, so why do anything about
the problem? It is the most vile sort of politics. And since
Washington is full of lowlife, scum cowards, nothing continues
to be done.
#Post#: 17166--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quite frankly, I am encouraged by this
By: Irena Date: June 26, 2019, 3:37 am
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[quote author=NealC link=topic=1173.msg17165#msg17165
date=1561538053]
But what really angers me Steven is the politicians have been
promising since the 80's they would be handling immigration in a
comprehensive way and they have not done it. Some look the
other way because they are bought and paid for by corporate
interests that wants the cheap labor, others figure the aliens
will eventually vote for their party, so why do anything about
the problem? It is the most vile sort of politics. And since
Washington is full of lowlife, scum cowards, nothing continues
to be done.
[/quote]
Yeah, well, something may finally get done. But solutions that
would have been viable 30-40 years ago aren't going to be viable
now, and if you try to implement them, there will be a price to
pay. That's what happens when you ignore a problem for a
generation.
#Post#: 17167--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quite frankly, I am encouraged by this
By: NealC Date: June 26, 2019, 3:44 am
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I understand that. It is just frustrating that we have no
recourse for the lies and the manipulations that got us where we
are now. The Reagan amnesty was promised as the "last one".
#Post#: 17168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quite frankly, I am encouraged by this
By: Irena Date: June 26, 2019, 3:45 am
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[quote author=NealC link=topic=1173.msg17167#msg17167
date=1561538691]
I understand that. It is just frustrating that we have no
recourse for the lies and the manipulations that got us where we
are now. The Reagan amnesty was promised as the "last one".
[/quote]
Hehehe. Hey, they're your politicians. :D
#Post#: 17169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quite frankly, I am encouraged by this
By: NealC Date: June 26, 2019, 3:51 am
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Believe me, I know.
As a New Yorker I have to apologize to the rest of the country
for my two Senators, both of whom are among the lowest of the
low. And not because I disagree with their politics, but
because they are both the very worst sort of politicians, and
one in particular (Chuck Schumer) is a horrible human being.
#Post#: 17200--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quite frankly, I am encouraged by this
By: SHL Date: June 26, 2019, 1:12 pm
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[quote author=NealC link=topic=1173.msg17169#msg17169
date=1561539067]
Believe me, I know.
As a New Yorker I have to apologize to the rest of the country
for my two Senators, both of whom are among the lowest of the
low. And not because I disagree with their politics, but
because they are both the very worst sort of politicians, and
one in particular (Chuck Schumer) is a horrible human being.
[/quote]
So, Neal, I guess you must be a fan of California Senators Diana
Feinstein and Kamala Harris, right? Both Democrats.
They‘ll fix things.
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