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#Post#: 16812--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vegetarian, Vegan, Gay
By: Nikola Date: June 13, 2019, 7:49 am
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[quote author=Beech 18 link=topic=1153.msg16810#msg16810
date=1560429290]
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1153.msg16807#msg16807
date=1560425521]
I'm starting to wonder if it's about avoiding labels (you're
a... something) more than anything else. I might be wrong.
[/quote]
It's always seemed to me that those who say "I'm vegan" are
taking the label/identity aspect to the next level, not avoiding
it. Vegan literally becomes how they see themselves and relate
to the world. It's subtle outwardly but has a deep meaning to
them. It's who they ARE. Not what they DO.
[/quote]
But aren't nouns linked with identity more than adjectives? If
you say "I'm American" and "I'm an American", which one has more
of an identity feel to it? I'd say the latter but I'm not a
native speaker.
#Post#: 16813--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vegetarian, Vegan, Gay
By: Alharacas Date: June 13, 2019, 7:50 am
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Interesting, Jerry. I'd say it was the other way around.
How about "German"? Isn't there a difference between introducing
me as "This is Susanne. She's a German" and "This is my German
friend, Susanne"? Being presented as "a German" would make me
feel that this was seen as my defining quality, I'd much rather
be introduced differently. Is that just me?
Irena, your example won't wash, sorry. :D Vegetarian, vegan, gay
and German, for that matter, all work as both nouns and
adjectives, while a vampire is always a noun. The adjective
would be "vampirical" or "vampiric".
#Post#: 16814--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vegetarian, Vegan, Gay
By: Truman Overby Date: June 13, 2019, 8:03 am
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[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1153.msg16812#msg16812
date=1560430195]
[quote author=Beech 18 link=topic=1153.msg16810#msg16810
date=1560429290]
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1153.msg16807#msg16807
date=1560425521]
I'm starting to wonder if it's about avoiding labels (you're
a... something) more than anything else. I might be wrong.
[/quote]
It's always seemed to me that those who say "I'm vegan" are
taking the label/identity aspect to the next level, not avoiding
it. Vegan literally becomes how they see themselves and relate
to the world. It's subtle outwardly but has a deep meaning to
them. It's who they ARE. Not what they DO.
[/quote]
But aren't nouns linked with identity more than adjectives? If
you say "I'm American" and "I'm an American", which one has more
of an identity feel to it? I'd say the latter but I'm not a
native speaker.
[/quote]
They both have the same ID feel to them to me. But I'm AN
American sounds more natural.
#Post#: 16815--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vegetarian, Vegan, Gay
By: Nikola Date: June 13, 2019, 8:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=1153.msg16811#msg16811
date=1560429607]
I was going to add a 2nd edit to my first post, but now it seems
to me the object of this endless discussion (about "He's gay"
vs. "He's a gay")
HTML https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/he-is-gay-he-is-a-gay.2566761/
may have had some impact on the question of whether "vegetarian"
is preferable to "a vegetarian" - at least for some people.
tl;dr
"he's gay" is both correct and idiomatic. "he's a gay", on the
other hand, while not being ungrammatical, is a) unidiomatic and
b) derogative.
[/quote]
I'd seen the first of the two wordreference discussions prior to
writing my post but hadn't seen this one. "A gay" is seen as
pejorative. So that does sound like people don't want that
label. It's a bit like them saying "it's just one of the things
that describe me (adjectives), it's not who I am (a noun).
#Post#: 16816--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vegetarian, Vegan, Gay
By: Nikola Date: June 13, 2019, 8:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=1153.msg16813#msg16813
date=1560430242]
Irena, your example won't wash, sorry. :D Vegetarian, vegan, gay
and German, for that matter, all work as both nouns and
adjectives, while a vampire is always a noun. The adjective
would be "vampirical" or "vampiric".
[/quote]
I think Irena was just talking about the sound "a" because Neal
said it could be swallowed before a "v", suggesting that even in
sentences where it's required as an article, people might not
pronounce it. So I assumed she meant "you wouldn't swallow an
'a' before 'vampire', it would sound weird".
I do like the word vampirical, though. It sounds very
scientific.
#Post#: 16818--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vegetarian, Vegan, Gay
By: Truman Overby Date: June 13, 2019, 10:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1153.msg16816#msg16816
date=1560431891]
"you wouldn't swallow an 'a' before 'vampire', it would sound
weird".
[/quote]
Is the 'a' vegan? Obviously the vampire is not vegan. :D
#Post#: 16821--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vegetarian, Vegan, Gay
By: Nikola Date: June 13, 2019, 11:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Beech 18 link=topic=1153.msg16818#msg16818
date=1560438163]
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1153.msg16816#msg16816
date=1560431891]
"you wouldn't swallow an 'a' before 'vampire', it would sound
weird".
[/quote]
Is the 'a' vegan? Obviously the vampire is not vegan. :D
[/quote]
I think that "a" is both vegan and a vegan. "A" wouldn't eat
meat whereas "I" would.
#Post#: 16822--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vegetarian, Vegan, Gay
By: Irena Date: June 13, 2019, 11:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1153.msg16816#msg16816
date=1560431891]
[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=1153.msg16813#msg16813
date=1560430242]
Irena, your example won't wash, sorry. :D Vegetarian, vegan, gay
and German, for that matter, all work as both nouns and
adjectives, while a vampire is always a noun. The adjective
would be "vampirical" or "vampiric".
[/quote]
I think Irena was just talking about the sound "a" because Neal
said it could be swallowed before a "v", suggesting that even in
sentences where it's required as an article, people might not
pronounce it. So I assumed she meant "you wouldn't swallow an
'a' before 'vampire', it would sound weird".
I do like the word vampirical, though. It sounds very
scientific.
[/quote]
Yup. That's what I meant.
Take "she's a violinist" vs. "she's violent." Would you swallow
the indefinite article in the first case? I wouldn't (or at
least I don't think I would).
#Post#: 16823--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vegetarian, Vegan, Gay
By: Irena Date: June 13, 2019, 11:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Beech 18 link=topic=1153.msg16810#msg16810
date=1560429290]
[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1153.msg16807#msg16807
date=1560425521]
I'm starting to wonder if it's about avoiding labels (you're
a... something) more than anything else. I might be wrong.
[/quote]
It's always seemed to me that those who say "I'm vegan" are
taking the label/identity aspect to the next level, not avoiding
it. Vegan literally becomes how they see themselves and relate
to the world. It's subtle outwardly but has a deep meaning to
them. It's who they ARE. Not what they DO.
[/quote]
Really? I don't know, maybe. To me, "I'm vegan" means something
like "I do veganism," whereas "I'm a vegan" means "I'm one of
the vegans." Something like that. ;) Of course, I'm not a
native English speaker, and articles (alas!) remain my English
Achilles heel. :-[ [ETA: It's even worse with French. Much
worse. Sigh.] That said, I am vegan, and that's how I normally
say it (without the indefinite article).
Now, sometimes, I might say "I am the vegan." For example, if I
ordered a special (vegan) meal somewhere or other, I might say
that to the waiter (so he knows who that one vegan meal is for).
#Post#: 16826--------------------------------------------------
Re: Vegetarian, Vegan, Gay
By: NealC Date: June 13, 2019, 1:40 pm
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It really is almost swallowed. The best you would get before
violinist is sheza or shes uh but it really would be hard to
pick it out. Especially here in NY, where we do talk fast.
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