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#Post#: 16207--------------------------------------------------
Emancipation in the US - did you know?
By: Alharacas Date: May 27, 2019, 7:33 am
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What I was taught at school was that slavery in the US was
abolished in 1863, resp. 1865. Full stop.
Yesterday I had a small epiphany. And I'm thoroughly embarrassed
to say that it took just a bit of googling until I came across
the Black Codes:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Codes_(United_States)
tl;dr
It turns out there were countless laws passed, sometimes before,
but mostly after the Civil War, which effectively perpetuated
slavery. And these laws remained in effect until well into the
20th century, in some cases until 1972.
Now, I'm really curious - do children in US schools learn about
this? Is it taught anywhere outside the US?
#Post#: 16210--------------------------------------------------
Re: Emancipation in the US - did you know?
By: Irena Date: May 27, 2019, 8:04 am
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[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=1106.msg16207#msg16207
date=1558960387]
It turns out there were countless laws passed, sometimes before,
but mostly after the Civil War, which effectively perpetuated
slavery.
[/quote]
Perpetuated slavery? This is news to me. As far as I know, there
were a great many laws that effectively turned black Americans
into second or third class citizens. But citizens nonetheless,
not slaves. I take it you disagree. Why? Which law(s) in
particular do you have in mind?
#Post#: 16215--------------------------------------------------
Re: Emancipation in the US - did you know?
By: Alharacas Date: May 27, 2019, 10:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Irena link=topic=1106.msg16210#msg16210
date=1558962290]
[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=1106.msg16207#msg16207
date=1558960387]
It turns out there were countless laws passed, sometimes before,
but mostly after the Civil War, which effectively perpetuated
slavery.
[/quote]
Perpetuated slavery? This is news to me. As far as I know, there
were a great many laws that effectively turned black Americans
into second or third class citizens. But citizens nonetheless,
not slaves. I take it you disagree. Why? Which law(s) in
particular do you have in mind?
[/quote]
Apparently, it was like this: slavery was abolished in 1863/65.
Except for "convicted criminals" (this is important). And while
troops from the north had been sent to the south to safeguard
the freed slaves against further enslavement, these troops were
withdrawn in 1877. Thereafter, many states passed laws which
facilitated de-facto re-enslavement:
"[...] Though slaves were formally emancipated by the Thirteenth
Amendment to the United States Constitution following the Civil
War, after Reconstruction [i.e. after 1877], white-dominated
Southern state legislatures passed Black Codes, "an array of
interlocking laws essentially intended to criminalize black life
to restrict the economic independence of blacks and provide
pretexts for jail terms. Blacks were often unable to pay even
small fees and were sentenced to labor as a result; convicts
were leased to plantations, lumber camps, and mines to be used
for forced labor. Joseph E. Brown, former governor of Georgia,
amassed great wealth based on his use of convict labor in his
Dade Coal Company mines and other enterprises, from 1874 to
1894."
Quote from
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_by_Another_Name
"The continued involuntary servitude took various forms but the
primary forms included -> convict leasing, -> peonage, and ->
sharecropping, with the latter eventually encompassing poor
whites as well and by the 1930s, they made up the vast majority.
Using convict leasing programs, African American men, often
guilty of no crime at all, were arrested, compelled to work
without pay, repeatedly bought and sold, and coerced to do the
bidding of masters. Sharecropping as it was practiced during
this period often involved severe restrictions on the freedom of
movement of sharecroppers who could be whipped for leaving the
plantation. Both sharecropping and convict leasing were legal
and tolerated by both the north and south. However, peonage was
an illicit form of forced labor. Its existence was ignored by
authorities while thousands of African Americans and poor Anglo
Americans were subjugated and held in bondage until the mid
1960s to the late 1970s."
Quote from wikipedia
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_unfree_labor_in_the_United_States
There are long entries on convict leasing, peonage and
sharecropping on wikipedia as well, but in short, these terms
mean roughly the following:
Convict leasing: first you either introduce extremely strict
laws against vagrancy. A sheriff apprehending a "vagrant" (i.e.
any black person without a white employer vouching for them)
gets $5, while the "vagrant" gets fined and/or sentenced. Or you
introduce a poll tax specifically for black people. Everyone who
doesn't pay it also gets fined and/or sentenced. These
fines/sentences then need to be worked off by the "criminal",
not in a prison, but by working for anyone who happens to need a
labourer.
Easy to see how nicely that would work, isn't it? Once you've
worked off your initial sentence, you're free to walk away.
Except you'll be apprehended once again for vagrancy if you do
that.
Sharecropping (where in theory you get a part of the harvest in
return for working the land) and peonage (debt bondage) often go
hand in hand (and used to be quite common in Europe as well, in
some form or another): you house and feed a labourer, rent and
food to be deducted from pay/harvest. It's easy to see how
quickly somebody would become indebted forever, depending on the
landowner's or employer's unscrupulousness, isn't it?
Additional laws - for example making it illegal for black people
to lease or own land outside of cities (so no hope of ever
becoming an independent farmer, even in theory) and/or leaving
your employer's land (so no hope of finding a different
employer; but of course, there was no hope of that anyway,
because anybody looking for work could be apprehended as a
vagrant) - to be introduced at the lawmakers' discretion.
I'm sorry if you'd been expecting an answer like "§ 766" and are
now disappointed, Irena, and I'm also sorry this is such a long
answer. :)
#Post#: 16216--------------------------------------------------
Re: Emancipation in the US - did you know?
By: Truman Overby Date: May 27, 2019, 10:34 am
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One point of interest that not many understand { that includes
Americans } The Emancipation Proclamation did not free the
slaves in 1863. It had no force of law since it was directed to
the states in rebellion.
It is vitally important to note that the white southerners were
members of the DEMOCRAT PARTY, NOT the Republican Party. The
democrats were the slave owners and therefore the instigators of
the US Civil War. The laws to which you refer are democrat party
laws. The KKK were and are democrats.
#Post#: 16218--------------------------------------------------
Re: Emancipation in the US - did you know?
By: SHL Date: May 27, 2019, 11:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=1106.msg16207#msg16207
date=1558960387]
What I was taught at school was that slavery in the US was
abolished in 1863, resp. 1865. Full stop.
Yesterday I had a small epiphany. And I'm thoroughly embarrassed
to say that it took just a bit of googling until I came across
the Black Codes:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Codes_(United_States)
tl;dr
It turns out there were countless laws passed, sometimes before,
but mostly after the Civil War, which effectively perpetuated
slavery. And these laws remained in effect until well into the
20th century, in some cases until 1972.
Now, I'm really curious - do children in US schools learn about
this? Is it taught anywhere outside the US?
[/quote]
Yes, this is all true, but a shocking testament to US history.
And NO, this history is never taught in US schools. No one ever
speaks of it. It‘s all true but too horrifying for Americans to
face and too much of an embarrassment for the US.
It was extraordinarily dangerous for a black person to live in
the US South until the 70s. Their lives were in danger because
they could simply disappear, be tortured and killed by whites,
often lynched, and no one would do anything about it. The white
authorities would simply ignore it or even take part in it.
As just one example, among many of racial segregation, it was
customary and expected for blacks to avoid looking at or getting
too close to whites in the South, especially States like
Mississippi up until about 1970. For example, if a black person
was walking down a sidewalk and a white approached from the
opposite direction, the black was to make no eye contact with
the white person, hang his head, and cross the street to avoid
the white man/woman. If they did pass the white person on the
street they risked being slapped or pushed off the street with
words like „Get out of the way n*gger!“
For an horrific story from 1955 of the torture, and murder of a
14-year old black teenager from Chicago, visiting relatives in
Mississippi in August that year, see the story of Emmett Till.
It made international headlines, which is likely the only reason
why the two white men who were the killers were charged with
murder (yet acquitted, found not guilty by an all-white male
jury). After their acquittal the new murderers, knowing they
were safe from retrial, sold their true story to a national
magazine for $4000 and admitted to the kidnapping, torture and
murder. The wife of one of the murderers accused the boy of
whistling at her as she sold him a 2 Cent piece of chewing gum
(this prompted the killing by the husband and his brother-in-law
I believe or another hot-headed relative). Later the wife said
he lied about the event and still lives a free woman at
something like 87 in North Carolina.
HTML https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till
There was a book published about American racial segregation
laws, entitled „Hitler’s American Model (Example): How America‘s
Racial Laws Inspired the National Socialists“, by James Q.
Whitman.
If you can stomach it, and it is hard to watch, there are
YouTube videos on this:
HTML https://youtu.be/I8Fv8h2Dzpk
That‘s the German-dubbed version, but the English version is out
there too. The all-white male jury who acquitted the killers,
and they really were the killers, laughed on their way into the
courtroom after the trial and said it took them a full hour to
deliberate and render a not-guilty verdict because it was hot,
and they had to stop for a soda pop to drink.
The only two black witnesses to testify at trial had to be
smuggled out of Mississippi after their testimony (they were
subject to death treats) and made it alive to Chicago, never to
return.
#Post#: 16219--------------------------------------------------
Re: Emancipation in the US - did you know?
By: SHL Date: May 27, 2019, 12:05 pm
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This is also an example of life for a black in the US South (but
not always) before 1970 (this is recent US history), not 75 year
old German history:
HTML https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/marion-indiana-lynching-1930/
The photo was actually taken in 1930 in Marion, Indiana. There‘s
a fairly long story behind it, and there are far worse photos to
view on the internet than that one, but that inspired Billy
Holidays famous song, Strange Fruit:
Southern trees bear strange fruit
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees
Pastoral scene of the gallant south
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth
Scent of magnolias, sweet and fresh
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh
Here is fruit for the crows to pluck
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck
For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop
Here is a strange and bitter crop
It is true, however, that local townspeople would hold a sort
of party when they organized these events. They‘d all come out
and watch. The vicim were never just killed outright. They were
first tortured, body parts were amputated from live victims
(fingers, toes, genitalia), and the townspeople would take the
body parts home and put them in drawers to save them as
souvenirs), the bodies were often burned alive either before or
while the victim was hung. The townspeople would laugh and eat
watermelons or bring food like to a celebration.
This is the dark history of the US no one wants to talk and no
American child will learn of in school, because its too
appalling. It’s the truth about and the „morality“ of some of
the people of the time in the US.
This behavior continued for 100 years after the end of the US
Civil War, and is a direct result of the US not treating the US
South and its slaveholders of the time as having committed
crimes against humanity. What this pictures depicts are crimes
against humanity. No question about it.
How did they define a black person? That´s what interested
Hitler and the Nazis. Some States said a person was a black if
he had 1/8th black ancestry or more. Some said 1/16th or more.
Most settled on the „one drop rule“, essentially meaning any
degree of black ancestry. Of course, they would have been
thrilled with today‘s DNA tests, because we can detect African
ancestry (or any really) down to the 0.1% range now (one tenth
of one percent).
The only point to be made is that, when crimes against humanity
are perpetrated and the perpetrators are not held accountable
and brought to justice, it can take decades, maybe 100 years for
these crimes to end (if at all).
#Post#: 16220--------------------------------------------------
Re: Emancipation in the US - did you know?
By: Irena Date: May 27, 2019, 12:07 pm
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@Alharacas
Most interesting! No, I didn't know about this. Of course I knew
about Jim Crow, etc., but this is a bit different, isn't it? It
sounds rather similar to the Gulags. You figure you need X
laborers to do highly unpleasant work for free, and so you
declare X people antirevolutionaries, and voila! Same logic.
Also, what's "§ 766"??
#Post#: 16221--------------------------------------------------
Re: Emancipation in the US - did you know?
By: Irena Date: May 27, 2019, 12:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
@Steve
Could I politely and humbly ask you to remove that horrible
photo? You can always just post a link to it for people who wish
to see it.
ETA: Thank you, Steve, for your understanding, and for having
removed the photo. I do appreciate it. :)
#Post#: 16222--------------------------------------------------
Re: Emancipation in the US - did you know?
By: Alharacas Date: May 27, 2019, 12:45 pm
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[member=50]Irena[/member] - I'm sorry, I just chose a random
number (for the §) because I felt you would rather have had a
very specific answer, like "Code of Law So-and-so, § number
so-and-so" (which I can't really give, because apparently, these
laws differed from state to state, were sometimes even repealed,
but then often replaced by even stricter laws, etc.), instead of
a pretty long-winded explanation.
Thanks for your answer. After my initial post, I'd thought "if
anybody outside of the US knows about this, I bet it's going to
be Irena". :)
#Post#: 16223--------------------------------------------------
Re: Emancipation in the US - did you know?
By: Irena Date: May 27, 2019, 12:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=1106.msg16222#msg16222
date=1558979110]
After my initial post, I'd thought "if anybody outside of the US
knows about this, I bet it's going to be Irena". :)
[/quote]
Ha! But I didn't know about the exact stuff that you described.
I once read an entire American History textbook (a thick book,
1000 pages or so; did all the exercises, too), and I'm
reasonably certain this wasn't mentioned...
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