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#Post#: 16167--------------------------------------------------
Looking for a preposition with determination
By: Nikola Date: May 25, 2019, 3:35 pm
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I need help, please. My language partner learned the verb "to
cope" and asked me if he could form the following sentence:
I cope with adversity with determination.
He wasn't sure about the two "with" in a row. I said I wasn't
sure either and would probably use "through" instead. I cope
with adversity through determination. I tried googling it but
couldn't find a similar sentence so I promised to ask some
native speakers.
I think he meant that determination was the thing that was
helping him to cope and not that determination was just
something accompanying the process (like "with a smile on my
face").
Thanks!
#Post#: 16168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Looking for a preposition with determination
By: Truman Overby Date: May 25, 2019, 3:57 pm
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Sounds natural to me.
Alternatively, you could say " I use determination to cope with
adversity." "Through" is fine as well.
#Post#: 16169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Looking for a preposition with determination
By: Nikola Date: May 25, 2019, 4:12 pm
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Thanks a lot.
#Post#: 16170--------------------------------------------------
Re: Looking for a preposition with determination
By: Truman Overby Date: May 25, 2019, 4:20 pm
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I wish I knew a rule, but I don't. I just know that repeating
'with' more than once sounds odd to me. Ex: "I cope with
adversity with determination and with prayer and with coffee."
It's probably okay grammatically but I can believe that it's
good form. Maybe a teacher { SuKi } can put a finer point on it.
#Post#: 16171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Looking for a preposition with determination
By: SHL Date: May 25, 2019, 4:36 pm
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I think both constructions are grammatically correct, so you
both are right, but when I read your use of “through” to avoid
repeating “with” it sounded stylistically better. I mean it just
sounded better to my ear, but the other sentence was okay too,
probably so much so that few would notice.
I used to tell people on italki a sentence might be grammatical
correct, but poor stylistically. That’s what English professors
at universities really get into with native speakers. Not how to
make grammatically correct sentences (maybe sometimes) but
stylistically better ones. One thing I do at work, especially in
revising things my clients have written, who are native speakers
and send me things they write to file with the court, is
re-writing their sentences for them to make them stylistically
better.
One thing I learned early on is to avoid repetition. I heard
someone say once (who was a PhD from Sanford) “well, I used THAT
word/verb already once in the sentence before, so I can’t use it
again.” I always thought that was a good rule of thumb, and I
suppose that’s why languages have so many synonyms, for
stylistic betterment. If you used the same words over and over
again it would demonstrate a limited vocabulary and sound almost
repetitious.
I have a client, an Air Force captain, with a college degree,
and who is a native speaker, write up a declaration for me to
file with the court. He did a good job of it, but wrote “because
my wife hates me..” I told him it all sounded good, but to drop
the “my wife hates me”. There’s something wrong with saying
that, and it’s not going to sound good to the judge. So, I told
him to say something different and softer, like `because my wife
disapproves of me`, It’s stylistically better for the context.
Does that sort of make sense? It could just be a legal thing
too.
You could also say “I cope with diversity by determination.”
Jerry’s suggestions is good too. But, it’s like any fitting
preposition other than repeating “with” is stylistically better.
#Post#: 16172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Looking for a preposition with determination
By: Nikola Date: May 25, 2019, 5:37 pm
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Thanks Steve. I get what you're saying about repetition (this is
why he asked in the first place, because of the repeating
"with") so it makes sense to use another preposition. I just
wasn't sure if "through" actually worked in that sentence. Now I
know it does.
#Post#: 16174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Looking for a preposition with determination
By: SHL Date: May 25, 2019, 6:27 pm
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[quote author=It's Me link=topic=1100.msg16170#msg16170
date=1558819239]
I wish I knew a rule, but I don't. I just know that repeating
'with' more than once sounds odd to me. Ex: "I cope with
adversity with determination and with prayer and with coffee."
It's probably okay grammatically but I can believe that it's
good form. Maybe a teacher { SuKi } can put a finer point on it.
[/quote]
Yeah, repetition is to be avoided for stylistic rather than
grammar reasons. There’s a stylist trick I always use to improve
sentences like the example Jerry gave, by shortening them.
First you have to be sure you can match the preposition with the
noun you are using because you can’t always. To improve Jerry’s
sentence you can saying “I cope with adversity though
determination, prayer and coffee.” You can cope with a problem
through prayer and I’m fairly sure you could say “through
coffee.” It sounds slightly off to me or maybe just colloquial
Californian or something, but I’m sure you can get away with it
since “though” suggests “by means of.”
I told people on italki that English is a language of brevity
that dislikes long words and sentences. The strongest sentences
are those that pack a lot of meaning in them with few words.
Bertrand Russell, the famous British philosopher, mathematician,
sort of a genius in about everything, once wrote an essay “How I
write” and he explains just that. When he was about 12, while
all the other boys were playing football outside, he was in his
grandmother’s study reading every book she had (he’s 12 and
reading Nietzsche and all the other boys are playing outside- he
was a rare one). He said he used to enjoy a little exercise.
He’d take a sentence and play around with it and see if he could
condense it into as few words as possible without losing meaning
or clarity. Through this he became a brilliant writer.
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