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#Post#: 16057--------------------------------------------------
Brexit - MOVED FROM General Discussion
By: Truman Overby Date: May 24, 2019, 9:19 am
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Can anyone tell me in no more than 140 characters why Brexit
failed? I really haven't been keeping up with the nitty-gritty.
But I did see that it cost May her job.
#Post#: 16059--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit - MOVED FROM General Discussion
By: Irena Date: May 24, 2019, 9:27 am
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Basically, Cameron (the previous PM) wanted to get concessions
from the EU by threatening to leave the EU. He called a
referendum in order to strengthen his negotiating position. He
had no intention of actually leaving the EU; he just wanted to
scare Brussels into giving him what he wanted. That was all
quite brilliant, of course, except that he neglected to plan for
the eventuality of Leave actually winning. Oops. So, his
successor (that would be Theresa May) kept trying to leave
without leaving, and the whole thing turned into a comedy of
Monty Python proportions.
#Post#: 16061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit - MOVED FROM General Discussion
By: Truman Overby Date: May 24, 2019, 9:31 am
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Thank you, Irena. I had no idea how this got to be FUBAR.
You had 97 words and 572 characters. I should have specified
word count. Excellent.
#Post#: 16103--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit - MOVED FROM General Discussion
By: Alharacas Date: May 24, 2019, 3:13 pm
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Basically, I agree with Irena, except that as I understood it,
Cameron was mainly (or also?) trying to shut up those (many) UK
politicians who'd hit on the brilliant strategy of blaming the
EU for all of their own f*ck-ups.
#Post#: 16108--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit - MOVED FROM General Discussion
By: NealC Date: May 24, 2019, 5:13 pm
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Irena you are saying Cameron ran a vote that needed a Yes result
to give him any bargaining power. He got that. Or did he want
the vote to be symbolic and non binding? Or perhaps he really
thought the result would be no, but close enough to make Europe
scared?
#Post#: 16109--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit - MOVED FROM General Discussion
By: Irena Date: May 24, 2019, 5:24 pm
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Neal, I think the idea was to call a referendum, and then win
concessions from the EU in the run-up to the referendum (the
idea being that the EU would make those concessions in order to
prevent Brexit). And he (Cameron) hoped for a narrow victory for
Remain. Except that Leave won, and he and his pals had no
reasonable plan for that eventuality. Circus ensued.
#Post#: 16110--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit - MOVED FROM General Discussion
By: Alharacas Date: May 24, 2019, 5:28 pm
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Yes, as I understand it, negotiations with Brussels took place
before the referendum, which was used as a tool to gain better
conditions for Great Britain: "See, Brussels, we're going to
have this referendum soon, asking people whether they want to
stay or leave. So, you'd better change things in our favour,
otherwise the British might vote to leave."
#Post#: 16115--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit - MOVED FROM General Discussion
By: NealC Date: May 24, 2019, 9:52 pm
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Echoes from my childhood, wasnt it very hard for Britain to get
in?
#Post#: 16119--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit - MOVED FROM General Discussion
By: Alharacas Date: May 25, 2019, 4:57 am
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Thanks, Neal, for making me look it up - you're right:
"The UK was the first country to establish a Delegation to the
ECSC in 1952 and the first country to sign an Association
Agreement with the Community in 1954.
The UK had first applied to join in 1961, but this was vetoed by
French President Charles de Gaulle.
After de Gaulle had relinquished the French presidency in 1969,
the UK made a third and successful application for membership."
Quote from
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_the_European_Communities
I hadn't known that, I only vaguely remembered that later on,
there was quite a lot of resistance in Great Britain to the
ratification of further treaties, especially by the Labour
Party.
I wonder why de Gaulle was so set against the UK's membership?
#Post#: 16121--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brexit - MOVED FROM General Discussion
By: Irena Date: May 25, 2019, 5:17 am
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[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=1092.msg16119#msg16119
date=1558778277]
I wonder why de Gaulle was so set against the UK's membership?
[/quote]
Because de Gaulle was a wise man, that's why. Just look at this
mess!
Seriously now, I've been told that he was worried about American
influence. He thought that letting the UK in was a way of
letting the US in through the back door. One way or the other,
I'd say he was clearly right that the UK should stay out. At the
risk of sounding like a broken record: just look at this mess!
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