DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Even Greener Pastures
HTML https://evengreener.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Found on the Internet
*****************************************************
#Post#: 15719--------------------------------------------------
Language puzzle - the Voynich manuscript
By: Alharacas Date: May 19, 2019, 5:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Had you heard of the old manuscript this article is about?
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/16/latin-hebrew-proto-romance-new-theory-on-voynich-manuscript
And if that got you interested, here's the full article:
HTML https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02639904.2019.1599566
If you can be bothered to read all (or at least substantial
bits) of it, I'd love to hear what you think about it. He does
present his case convincingly, doesn't he? On the other hand,
you'd think that if it actually were some kind of proto-Romance
language, it would look a bit more familiar, wouldn't you?
Here's a sample from the article:
"Borage (Borago officinalis). The first line of the accompanying
text reads: ‘panais-or o nauira æo arna o péor omor or é’epe a
doméas t’ (the narrow golden taproot, its bark has the potency
to kill the domestic/family belly). Borage oil has a long
history as a toxic uterine stimulant for inducing miscarriage
and abortion, which was commonly practised to deal with unwanted
pregnancies as a form of birth control."
#Post#: 15728--------------------------------------------------
Re: Language puzzle - the Voynich manuscript
By: Aliph Date: May 19, 2019, 7:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What a story! One should write a novel about it!
#Post#: 15733--------------------------------------------------
Re: Language puzzle - the Voynich manuscript
By: NealC Date: May 19, 2019, 7:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't think it is a code, who writes something so long and
detailed in a code? Proto-Romantic seems to fit, but what
bothers me is a proto language, a bridge from Latin to the
Romance languages, you would expect to see that a lot earlier
than 1500. Unless this island was so isolated or the language
was considered necessary for Royalty. Glancing at his examples
it certainly seems like a romance language, and why not a book
on herbs, flora, reproductive issues and childrearing?
It is exciting, I think he has hit on something here and I think
his paper has a lot of good examples. I don't understand why he
was able to figure it out when those before him could not, that
part seemed a little vague. It certainly is not surprising that
some academics are upset, that happens all the time. They all
have their little academic kingdoms to defend.
#Post#: 15739--------------------------------------------------
Re: Language puzzle - the Voynich manuscript
By: Alharacas Date: May 19, 2019, 8:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=NealC link=topic=1065.msg15733#msg15733
date=1558269169]
but what bothers me is a proto language, a bridge from Latin to
the Romance languages, you would expect to see that a lot
earlier than 1500.
[/quote]
Yes, exactly!
I once read a Spanish chronicle from about that time (a
transcript, obviously), and apart from a few now obsolete
constructions and, of course, lots of interesting/weird
vocabulary, it's Castellano just as we know it.
It's actually beside the point whether or not "the island" was
isolated, because that part (who wrote the thing, where and for
whom) is all total conjecture on the part of the author.
I guess if the guy did get the alphabet right, then sooner or
later, a familiar word or two should turn up in the rest of the
manuscript, don't you think?
Sofia, you know Neapolitan, don't you? What's your opinion on
that sentence I copied in from the article? Does it ring in any
way familiar to you?
#Post#: 15744--------------------------------------------------
Re: Language puzzle - the Voynich manuscript
By: Nikola Date: May 19, 2019, 8:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
They talk about the words that have survived in other languages.
For example, the word omor is still used in Romanian these days,
meaning murder.
The text words can still be found in various Romance languages
and Latin: panais-or (French); o’nauira (Latin); æo arna
(Galician); o’péor (Galician, Spanish); omor (Romanian); or
é’epe a (Old Italian); doméas (Old French); t [terminus]
(Latin).
It's interesting how those words are scattered all over the
Romance language areas and across the historical use. It does
sound a bit like someone has put together a clever puzzle.
#Post#: 15748--------------------------------------------------
Re: Language puzzle - the Voynich manuscript
By: NealC Date: May 19, 2019, 8:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sofia is the obvious expert but even in my limited studies of
Italian and my childhood of Neapolitan, it looks/sounds Italian
to me.
#Post#: 15749--------------------------------------------------
Re: Language puzzle - the Voynich manuscript
By: Truman Overby Date: May 19, 2019, 8:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This story reminds me of the Bible Code inventors. You can find
a code in anything. Or as in this case you can reverse engineer
one. I'm saying it's all a prank designed to stump too-serious
future humans. Let's not forget that people have always had a
sense of humor.
*****************************************************