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#Post#: 15506--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Forest Date: May 15, 2019, 8:17 am
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Nikola,
For sure, Europeans seem to be freer in the issue on gender than
Asians. I envy the cultural environment. My country isin kinda
transition period in feminism and gender equality, so men tend
to feel antagonism to feminism, and women also express some
hatred and disgust with the idea of ​​a man like
this. I'm really sick of the two extreme, narrow-minded
perspectives, regardless of male or female.
I hope some members from Asian areas, Japan or China, India,
Vietnam, etc. will reply to my topic, too. Aren't there people
from those countries?
#Post#: 15526--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: SHL Date: May 15, 2019, 11:39 pm
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[quote author=Nikola link=topic=1047.msg15502#msg15502
date=1557923081]
[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=1047.msg15497#msg15497
date=1557914039]
[quote author=SJ link=topic=1047.msg15496#msg15496
date=1557909645]
By the way, most members who participate in discussion on this
site are from European countries and the US. So nobody seems to
empathize with my question, the issue of "women who are blamed
by traveling alone to dangerous areas". It's from different
cultural background, maybe?
[/quote]
SJ, yes, I think it may be about culture. Fortunately,
victim-blaming has kind of gone out of fashion in my country
(and also in other European countries and in the US, as far as I
know).
I mean, I'm sure there is still a lot of it around, but it's
usually done by grannies mumbling into their tea ("What was she
doing in that place, anyway?"), and people in the pub after
they've had on drink too many ("She was asking for it, wasn't
she?"). However, you won't find people arguing like this in
serious newspapers or on TV anymore.
[/quote]
I agree with Alharacas that it's more of a mumbling and not
normally given as an official statement and I don't think it's
always unfair or completely unjustified either. It would be
great if all places on earth were just as safe for women as they
are for men but it's just not the case. It doesn't mean that
women shouldn't travel alone. I've done it myself but I had done
some research before I chose my destinations.
Having said that, I think that when you get abducted and held
hostage, in many cases it matters very little whether you're a
man or a woman. In 2013 two Czech female tourists were kidnapped
in Pakistan. They'd just crossed the Iran-Pakistan border and
were taking a bus to Quetta (600 km journey). They were even
given a guard with an automatic rifle to accompany them but they
didn't stand a chance when a group of armed men stopped the bus
and dragged them in the car. The same thing could have happened
to two men.
Of course many people say that they shouldn't have travelled
there, not because they're women but because it's dangerous,
full stop. Are they wrong? They were held hostage for two years.
Apparently, the Czech government paid a ransom to free them so
that makes them even less popular. And the cherry on the cake is
that one of them now converted to Islam (they were actually
forced to convert while being held captive but she continues
practicing Islam even now) and there have been speculations
about her intentions to return there. This is the part that
really makes some people furious.
[/quote]
Interesting story about those women abducted and them converting
to Islam by force but one sticking with it after being freed.
And she may want to go back to Pakistan? What is that all about?
Strange.
Isn‘t that a little like what they used to call the „Stockholm
Syndrome“ where the abducted person(s) seem to convert to the
ways of the captors or something? I haven‘t googled it, but it
reminds me of a local story we had here in the early 70s. You
may have heard the story, maybe not, but Patty Hearst was the
daughter of a famous and extremely wealthy publisher, William
Randolph Hearst of the Hearst Corporation. There‘s even a Hearst
Castle he built here which is a tourist attraction. She was
kidnapped from her apartment as I recall while a student at the
University of California, Berkeley, and held for ransom. It
wasn‘t due to wandering into the wrong side of town. She was
kidnapped by a kooky early 70s era radical group called the
Symbionese Liberation Army, headed by this nutty black guy who
broke out of a Southern California prison and formed this gang
of terrorists. He called himself „Field Marshal General Cinque.“
He used to secretly dispatch messages to the press and say weird
things like, „I‘m the nig*er who hunts YOU!“ And they went all
over the place robbing banks carrying machine guns (they said
they were „appropriating“ the money).
Long story short, she wound up supposedly joining their gang and
robbing banks with them until the members all got killed in a
shoot out and burning down of a house in South Central LA
(although they hid out all over San Francisco at the time). She
survived and was tried for various robberies and things and her
defense I think was this „Stockholm Syndrome“ where she claimed
to have been brainwashed into joining them. It‘s a very strange
story.
HTML https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army
It just reminds me of your story of the woman converting to
Islam under force and then staying with it.
#Post#: 15537--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Nikola Date: May 16, 2019, 6:30 am
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I think you might be right, Steve. It could be a case of what
they call the Stockholm Syndrome. Apparently, the key factors
are the passage of time, continual contact, and small acts of
kindness without direct and persistent abuse. The victims not
only develop a bond with their captors, they might also adopt
their beliefs, temporarily or permanently. Since their return,
the girls have not talked about how they had been treated. In
the videos the organisation posted while they were still in
captivity, they mention having limited access to food and water
but it might have been scripted. Originally, the captors
demanded the release of the Pakistani neuroscientist Aafia
Siddiqui (sentenced to 86 years in prison in the US) so that
could be seen as an indicator that they hold women in some
regard, although would the same thing apply to two western women
they managed to get hold of? Who knows. They settled for the
ransom once they realised that the act of holding random Czech
citizens hostage was unlikely going to change anything about a
court order in America. Perhaps they gave up on the idea when it
turned out they would have to start by explaining to the other
side where the Czech Republic actually was :)
#Post#: 15539--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Truman Overby Date: May 16, 2019, 6:53 am
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Not all of the SLA were killed in a shootout. Patty Hearst
survived, was arrested, spent a little time in prison, and was
pardoned by President Ford.
Donald DeFreeze, aka General Field Marshall Cinque, committed
suicide. The is from Wikipedia: DeFreeze adopted the name Field
Marshal Cinque (pronounced "SINK-you", though this is not how
the name is historically pronounced), having taken this name
from Joseph Cinqué, the reported leader of the slave rebellion
that took over the Spanish slave ship Amistad in 1839.[6] He
adopted the surname Mtume from the Swahili word for
"prophet".[citation needed]
The early 1970s in the US featured a lot of this sort of insane
violence. Essentially this all started in the mid to late 1960s
and finally petered out in the late 70s or so. The inspiration
was the US involvement in the Vietnam War and the youth
revolution that spawned the drug culture.
#Post#: 15567--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: SHL Date: May 16, 2019, 11:13 am
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[quote author=It's Me link=topic=1047.msg15539#msg15539
date=1558007630]
Not all of the SLA were killed in a shootout. Patty Hearst
survived, was arrested, spent a little time in prison, and was
pardoned by President Ford.
Donald DeFreeze, aka General Field Marshall Cinque, committed
suicide. The is from Wikipedia: DeFreeze adopted the name Field
Marshal Cinque (pronounced "SINK-you", though this is not how
the name is historically pronounced), having taken this name
from Joseph Cinqué, the reported leader of the slave rebellion
that took over the Spanish slave ship Amistad in 1839.[6] He
adopted the surname Mtume from the Swahili word for
"prophet".[citation needed]
The early 1970s in the US featured a lot of this sort of insane
violence. Essentially this all started in the mid to late 1960s
and finally petered out in the late 70s or so. The inspiration
was the US involvement in the Vietnam War and the youth
revolution that spawned the drug culture.
[/quote]
True. Not all of the SLA were killed. Some were away during the
shootout and fire of the house in LA. Patty Hearst wasn’t at the
house at the time with a few others so was on the run a couple
of years. She was later caught and convicted, but represented by
F Lee Bailey, the famous defense lawyer (but I heard he was
drunk during some of the trial). So Patty (then known as Tanya)
was convicted but later pardoned and released and is living a
normal life in California somewhere. It was a weird story.
#Post#: 15718--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Forest Date: May 19, 2019, 4:43 am
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I feel often the original subjects go towards unexpected
direction, and now this discussion on "women should be blamed
~~~" got lost it's way again.
Whenever, we lost the context and couldn't continue the
discussions in consistent context, our debates used to stop
there or used to be split. And I think it prevents our debate to
develop more diverse, creative opinions. How about trying to
grasp context? And I think too detailed, long paragraphs disturb
our concentration.(even though it might be just because of my
English ability)
#Post#: 15723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Nikola Date: May 19, 2019, 6:42 am
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I understand your frustration, SJ, but EGP is far from perfect.
If someone told you it was perfect, they lied :) We get
distracted, we get silly. It's not a bad thing to remind
ourselves that we could be more focused. I can't really help in
any way other than by splitting and moving posts. If you think
this is making people less focused, let me know because I am
trying to achieve the exact opposite. Long paragraphs are a
matter of personal style, in my opinion.
#Post#: 15726--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: NealC Date: May 19, 2019, 7:00 am
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SJ - As the OP I think you have the right to drag it back to
your original question, or even start a new thread. I dont want
to be so formal here that we demand people stay completely on
topic. We would miss a lot of good discussion if we did that.
The only place we are going to act on a thread is where it
starts out innocent and gets pulled into politics.
#Post#: 15734--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Forest Date: May 19, 2019, 7:32 am
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Nikola and Neal C,
Thank you for your advice. You are right. If we try to be too
formal, we can't talk freely and comfortably. I had better call
attention to original topic or spill it into another topic
whenever the subject gets lost.
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