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#Post#: 15484--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Truman Overby Date: May 14, 2019, 11:05 am
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[quote author=SHL link=topic=1047.msg15483#msg15483
date=1557848548]
Sorry the clip is in German without subtitles, so it‘s more for
Sofia, Nikola and Alharacas, but I loved it and have seen it
several times.
[/quote]
That's okay, Steve. Just to hear the heavenly melody of German
sends shivers down the spines of us all.
#Post#: 15486--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: SHL Date: May 14, 2019, 11:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=It's Me link=topic=1047.msg15484#msg15484
date=1557849903]
[quote author=SHL link=topic=1047.msg15483#msg15483
date=1557848548]
Sorry the clip is in German without subtitles, so it‘s more for
Sofia, Nikola and Alharacas, but I loved it and have seen it
several times.
[/quote]
That's okay, Steve. Just to hear the heavenly melody of German
sends shivers down the spines of us all.
[/quote]
If it‘s you again Jerry, under a new name, (must be) you know
my hidden agenda here is to promote the learning of the German
language by exposing people to its beauty! ;) You‘ll get
hooked on the „learn-German bug soon.“ :D
What gets me is this guy can chain smoke like this and even
sniff the stuff between smokes and die at 96 with no ill effects
from it. Amazing. He must have had amazing genes or something. I
can only assume he wasn‘t a drinker. That‘s a double danger
effect.
#Post#: 15487--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Truman Overby Date: May 14, 2019, 2:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=SHL link=topic=1047.msg15486#msg15486
date=1557851061]
[quote author=It's Me link=topic=1047.msg15484#msg15484
date=1557849903]
[quote author=SHL link=topic=1047.msg15483#msg15483
date=1557848548]
Sorry the clip is in German without subtitles, so it‘s more for
Sofia, Nikola and Alharacas, but I loved it and have seen it
several times.
[/quote]
That's okay, Steve. Just to hear the heavenly melody of German
sends shivers down the spines of us all.
[/quote]
If it‘s you again Jerry, under a new name, (must be)
[/quote]
Yeah, Steve, It's Me.
#Post#: 15493--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: NealC Date: May 14, 2019, 8:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The local Air Guard unit does search and rescue - downed pilots,
transport of wounded, that sort of thing. So far my son has had
two rotations in Djibouti in support of Special Forces units in
Africa.
On one mission a team was flown in to service some of the
aircraft at a forward base and when his work was done they
stationed him on the perimeter with his M-16. The area was a
collection point for wounded and the smell of blood was making
the local Baboons crazy. Some Baboons would work their way up
close and then charge the camp. His job was to 'discourage'
them.
Ahhhh Africa.
#Post#: 15496--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Forest Date: May 15, 2019, 3:40 am
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@SHL
If a goverment pay ransom to kidnappers, the people of the
nation are likely to be easy targets for the pirate groups or
criminal organizations. So German government conducted wisely
and sensibly, I think. Sorry not to understand the interview
though.
By the way, most members who participate in discussion on this
site are from European countries and the US. So nobody seems to
empathize with my question, the issue of "women who are blamed
by traveling alone to dangerous areas". It's from different
cultural background, maybe?
#Post#: 15497--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Alharacas Date: May 15, 2019, 4:53 am
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[quote author=SJ link=topic=1047.msg15496#msg15496
date=1557909645]
By the way, most members who participate in discussion on this
site are from European countries and the US. So nobody seems to
empathize with my question, the issue of "women who are blamed
by traveling alone to dangerous areas". It's from different
cultural background, maybe?
[/quote]
SJ, yes, I think it may be about culture. Fortunately,
victim-blaming has kind of gone out of fashion in my country
(and also in other European countries and in the US, as far as I
know).
I mean, I'm sure there is still a lot of it around, but it's
usually done by grannies mumbling into their tea ("What was she
doing in that place, anyway?"), and people in the pub after
they've had on drink too many ("She was asking for it, wasn't
she?"). However, you won't find people arguing like this in
serious newspapers or on TV anymore.
#Post#: 15498--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: MartinSR Date: May 15, 2019, 6:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for this interesting topic.
Actually I wanted to go a bit off-topic, because a part of
Sofia's comment struck me with a bit unpleasant feeling. But
first of all my short comment about the leading topic:
When you travel to a place which is known for being dangerous
for tourist you always do it for your own responsibility. Of
course you always hope to be back home safe after this journey,
but you must be aware that the danger exists. If something
really bad happens, you may hope that your family, friends,
government, etc. will do anything possible to help you, but you
can't blame them when they decide that the attempt of rescuing
you may cost them life of many other people. Of course most of
countries try to rescue their citizens or even citizens of other
countries when possible. I think they always calculate the
possible risk and start from negotiations or even pay ransom
before they risk a military operation. But if they decide to
free the hostages with using armed forces - it's their decision
and responsibility. And they can't blame the hostages for their
loss.
What does the public opinion says about it later... it's a
different thing. People are always 'wiser' when they already
know what happened and of course 'They would do it better if
they were in charge...'
Something that attracted my attention was this comment:
[quote author=Sofia link=topic=1047.msg15475#msg15475
date=1557824263]
However there is also a kind of thrilling and morbid attraction
from certain people to places linked to death or to danger. This
trend is called “Dark Tourism”. To visit the Chernobyl site of
nuclear disaster, the Auschwitz site of the concentration camp
or even a place where an earthquake took place.
HTML https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/features/is-dark-tourism-ok-chernobyl-pripyat-disaster-sites/
[/quote]
The National Geographic article was interesting and I fully
agree with the author that [quote]the problem lies not with the
choice of destination, but with the intention behind the
choice[/quote]
I just can't agree with putting three different kind of
'tourism' into the same box:
1) Travelling to places with increased probability of death
because of war, civil war, terrorism, increased level of crime,
...
2) Travelling to places which are risky because of the
conditions (natural, like climbing in high mountains, or
artificial, like places with persistent radiation or pollution,
e.g. Chernobyl
3) Visiting historic places known for mass deaths in the past
because of war, genocide, natural disasters.
The first group is connected with real risk. But not all of the
people going there are just tourist looking for adrenaline and
wanting to place selfie on their Facebook account. There are
also people engaged in help to people living in those areas and
people willing to tell the others about things going there. All
of them are at risk. On the other hand nowadays almost all
possible destinations are concerned with increased risk - I know
many people in Poland who afraid to travel to the West of Europe
because of all these terrorist acts during the last few years.
Is visiting Paris, London, Barcelona and other towns 'Dark
Tourism' too?
The second group must take into account the possible danger, but
with all precautions taken they have chance to survive and
achieve their goals... Of course there is always the question
about their intentions... Just to show how brave they are?
The third group is no risky in traditional way when we talking
about the dangers during the travel. Of course - visiting such
places may impact of some people psyche. They may reconsider
some of their views. In some cases it may cause trauma. I don't
agree that people go there only to make a photo with thumb up. I
agree that it's rarely source of knowledge, because (as Sophia
said) there are other means of getting the knowledge about
genocide and from this point of view visiting those places are
unnecessary.
Maybe I'm biased, because I live close to Auschwitz (I could
probably walk on feet there If I had 8-10 hours to do so).
During my elementary and high school we had a few mandatory
excursions to Auschwitz. The communist government cared about
this aspect of our education, to show us what the outcome of war
can be. Visiting such places I treat as a tribute to those
unhappy people who died there and as the declaration against war
and against totalitarianism at all. During my last travel
(during the past few weeks) I've visited the Genocide Museum in
Phnom Penh, which is not comparable with Auschwitz, but reminds
us that such things happened not only during the great wars and
often were carried out by people who should protect and care
about heir nation. Nobody of our group was really interested in
visiting it as the place to see, but we felt being obliged to
show our respect to those people who died there. I've also
visited the Cu Chi tunnels mentioned in the article and I may
say that seeing it, touching the walls of tunnels, hearing the
voices of the jungle around gave us just an impression of what
it could be like. The impression you won't get while reading
book or watching documentaries on TV. I confirm that they really
give an opportunity to fire a gun for those who are interested
in it... but nobody from our group was interested. Was it the
'black tourism' in our case? Would it be better if we forgot
about the history of countries we visited and just focus on nice
hotels, delicious food and beautiful landscapes?
#Post#: 15500--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Nikola Date: May 15, 2019, 6:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I have started a new thread about Dark Tourism here:
HTML https://evengreener.createaforum.com/general-discussion/visiting-places-with-a-dark-past/msg15499/?topicseen#msg15499<br
/>for those who want to further discuss this topic.
#Post#: 15502--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Nikola Date: May 15, 2019, 7:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Alharacas link=topic=1047.msg15497#msg15497
date=1557914039]
[quote author=SJ link=topic=1047.msg15496#msg15496
date=1557909645]
By the way, most members who participate in discussion on this
site are from European countries and the US. So nobody seems to
empathize with my question, the issue of "women who are blamed
by traveling alone to dangerous areas". It's from different
cultural background, maybe?
[/quote]
SJ, yes, I think it may be about culture. Fortunately,
victim-blaming has kind of gone out of fashion in my country
(and also in other European countries and in the US, as far as I
know).
I mean, I'm sure there is still a lot of it around, but it's
usually done by grannies mumbling into their tea ("What was she
doing in that place, anyway?"), and people in the pub after
they've had on drink too many ("She was asking for it, wasn't
she?"). However, you won't find people arguing like this in
serious newspapers or on TV anymore.
[/quote]
I agree with Alharacas that it's more of a mumbling and not
normally given as an official statement and I don't think it's
always unfair or completely unjustified either. It would be
great if all places on earth were just as safe for women as they
are for men but it's just not the case. It doesn't mean that
women shouldn't travel alone. I've done it myself but I had done
some research before I chose my destinations.
Having said that, I think that when you get abducted and held
hostage, in many cases it matters very little whether you're a
man or a woman. In 2013 two Czech female tourists were kidnapped
in Pakistan. They'd just crossed the Iran-Pakistan border and
were taking a bus to Quetta (600 km journey). They were even
given a guard with an automatic rifle to accompany them but they
didn't stand a chance when a group of armed men stopped the bus
and dragged them in the car. The same thing could have happened
to two men.
Of course many people say that they shouldn't have travelled
there, not because they're women but because it's dangerous,
full stop. Are they wrong? They were held hostage for two years.
Apparently, the Czech government paid a ransom to free them so
that makes them even less popular. And the cherry on the cake is
that one of them now converted to Islam (they were actually
forced to convert while being held captive but she continues
practicing Islam even now) and there have been speculations
about her intentions to return there. This is the part that
really makes some people furious.
#Post#: 15504--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Forest Date: May 15, 2019, 7:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Martin SR,
I can't agree more with what you said: I just can't agree with
putting three different kind of 'tourism' into the same box.
Actually, about first two types of tour, I'm not critical, if
people go there looking for adventures in life or
self-examination to make them deepen. However, I often hear that
people's aim is to show off to others on facebook, or to fill
the unique, special experiences that others don't have in a
resume for jobs. Also, I don't like the tourism to concentrate
on a great hotel, good food, or beautiful scenery. Traveling has
us think, feel, thank, learn, and enjoy our life.
Thank you for your thoughtful opinion, Martin.
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