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#Post#: 15463--------------------------------------------------
Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two Fre
nch soldiers' deaths in the rescue m
By: Forest Date: May 13, 2019, 7:21 am
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French commandos have rescued two French hostages, one Korean
woman and an American woman who had been seized by a militant
group in Burkina Faso, and two French soldiers were killed in
the mission. I hear People blame the hostages for traveling to
tourism prohibitted area, and to make two young soldiers dead,
and there is a public opinion that the rescued people must be
sentenced to imprisonment in France.
This case gives me two questions :
First, a government must use national resources(money, military
forces) to save their own people traveling forbidden zone,
notwithstanding official warning not to do? Or not responsible
for rescues?
Second, it's about traveling alone for women. In Korea, mourning
the French solidiers' sacrifice, some people blame the Korean
woman who traveled to dangerous area. Along with this, there is
even rising a strange sentiment related to kinda misogyny or
degrading of women among some people. Women should be blamed for
traveling alone to dangerous areas? If it happened in your
culture, how do people react for this?
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/10/two-french-soldiers-killed-rescuing-hostages-in-west-africa
#Post#: 15469--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?
By: Alharacas Date: May 13, 2019, 4:06 pm
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SJ, that's an interesting question. Still, I'd like to point out
that according to the article, the 2 French tourists were a) men
and b) kidnapped in Benin (a pretty safe/peaceful country) and
then dragged across the border to Burkina Faso, where they were
kept hostage. Therefore, I really don't think it was these two
guys' fault that the soldiers got killed.
As to your first question, yes, hopefully, my country (Germany)
would try to help me if something happened to me abroad. I
would, however, always have to pay for this afterwards (unless
it's because of some catastrophe, a plane being hijacked or
something). Also, I would be obliged to get special insurance
before I travelled to a place deemed unsafe by our Foreign
Office, as flying back a badly hurt person costs between $45,000
and $90,000.
As to your second question, there is a case - the first/only one
of its kind in the history of my country - being heard right now
in court. A German woman has had her passport marked in such a
way that she won't be able to leave for Afghanistan. The German
government says they've been told the woman would, in all
likelihood, be kidnapped if she travelled there, so they've made
it impossible for her to do this, even though she herself claims
to be willing to run the risk.
(Actually, from what I've read*, the woman seems definitely
under-equipped in the common sense department.)
However, I'm quite sure it's nothing to do with her being a
woman, it's about the government not wanting to waste resources
- they'd be just as unwilling to do this if it were a man
deliberately putting himself in danger.
*For anybody who reads German, here's the article:
HTML https://www.zeit.de/2018/36/sybille-schnehage-niedersachsen-afghanistan-entfuehrung-ausreiseverbot/komplettansicht
It's a neat lesson in what happens if you keep bumbling about,
throwing money around in a country with a culture very different
from your own, especially one whose language you don't speak (no
idea how she even managed to avoid learning the language over
the course of 30 years) - however good your intentions.
#Post#: 15473--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?
By: Forest Date: May 14, 2019, 2:32 am
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@Alharacas
Thank you for your comment. I didn't know the Frenchmen were
kidnapped in safe place and moved to Burkina Faso. In an
article, I just read some French people demanded the hostages to
send to jail. There must be some mistake.
Anyway, your answer let me know German government doesn't try to
rescue if people go to prohibited area and put themselves in
danger. Our government's stance on this has been quite different
from yours. About 10years ago, some Korean christians went for
missions in Afghanistan and were kidnapped by Taliban militants.
They went there, ignoring the government's warning not to go to
the quite dangerous area. Two people were killed and 20 people
released after 40days. Christian mission to the fundamentalist
Islam area! However, Korean government paid for lots of money in
cost of their lives. Moreover, the family of victims killed by
Taliban sued the government, saying, "We will ask the
government's overseas residents to take responsibility for
violating the protection obligations." Sigh...
I think we can't demand the infinite responsibility of
government. People have to be responsible for their decision to
the dangerous area themselves.
About women, for sure it seems that we have different cultures
each other. The Korean hostage are more blamed because she is a
woman, who looks like very strong, independent enough to travel
around the world alone. Our culture still doesn't like women to
be like that.
#Post#: 15475--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Aliph Date: May 14, 2019, 3:57 am
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Alharacas cleared the question about those two people kidnapped
in Benin.
I think generally one should use some common sense before
traveling to certain dangerous parts of the world and the
respective government cannot be responsible for irresponsible
acting of his citizens.
However there is also a kind of thrilling and morbid attraction
from certain people to places linked to death or to danger. This
trend is called “Dark Tourism”. To visit the Chernobyl site of
nuclear disaster, the Auschwitz site of the concentration camp
or even a place where an earthquake took place.
HTML https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/features/is-dark-tourism-ok-chernobyl-pripyat-disaster-sites/
Being a big traveler (mostly on the safe side though I am afraid
of earthquakes and am more scared in Japan than in many other
places) I kind of hate cheap thrills. That however would not
keep me from visiting a township in South Africa, accompanied by
a guide. On the contrary I renounced, when I was in Krakau, to
go to Auschwitz. I think it wouldn’t have added any significant
information to my general knowledge. I had seen the Yad Vachem
memorial in Jerusalem. While in Poland, I was more interested in
the present.
#Post#: 15476--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?
By: Alharacas Date: May 14, 2019, 4:31 am
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[quote author=SJ link=topic=1047.msg15473#msg15473
date=1557819126]
[member=4]Alharacas[/member]
Anyway, your answer let me know German government doesn't try to
rescue if people go to prohibited area and put themselves in
danger.[/quote]
No, there was a misunderstanding there. On the contrary, the
German government takes pretty good care of its citizens, as far
as we know. We - that is, ordinary citizens - suspect they
usually do whatever it takes to free German citizens if and when
they are kidnapped. However, it's always very hush-hush. You do
get the occasional report about a German having been kidnapped,
but there are usually no follow-up reports. I once read
somewhere that nothing may be published about my government
usually paying whatever ransom is demanded, because that would
mean making fair gaime of any German abroad.
#Post#: 15477--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Forest Date: May 14, 2019, 4:53 am
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Sofia, It's interesting to read about dark tourism. Glad to have
new information, thank you.
The American woman hostage who had been traveling with the
Korean for months around some dangerous areas, has posted
pictures and comments on SNS. I wonder if people are traveling
to a place to heighten our understanding, or simply to show off
on SNS or indulge some morbid curiosity during the dark tourism?
Whatever it is, the problem is that two innocent men were
sacrificed in the process of rescue for someone's irresponsible
adventure to deepen their life or showing off on SNS.
#Post#: 15478--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?
By: Forest Date: May 14, 2019, 5:04 am
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Quate from Alharacas
"my country (Germany) would try to help me if something happened
to me abroad. I would, however, always have to pay for this
afterwards."
Ugh..sorry, I misunderstood.
#Post#: 15479--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: NealC Date: May 14, 2019, 5:23 am
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The French Special Forces and the British SAS are pretty active
in Africa. My son's rescue unit did quite a few long range
rescue missions in support of both when they were based in
Djibouti.
#Post#: 15480--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: Forest Date: May 14, 2019, 7:16 am
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Neal C,
The French and British forces work on the rescue of their
people, not general hostages from other countries, don't they?
Actually the Korean and American woman inexpectedly were rescued
in the process of Frenchmen rescue.
#Post#: 15483--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women should be blamed for traveling to dangerous areas?:Two
French soldiers' deaths in the resc
By: SHL Date: May 14, 2019, 10:42 am
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This is my favorite interview with Helmut Schmidt about how he
and his special forces rescued Germans (mostly) from a hijacked
Lufthansa plane from Mogadishu, Somalia, and the hijacking by
PLO terrorists took them on a nightmare trip throughout the
Middle East. It started out in Mallorca, Spain with German
tourist just returning on a Lufthansa Boeing 737 to Frankfurt in
1977, but the PLO took control shortly after the flight began
and demanded the release of 3 or 4 RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion)
German terrorists that had been arrested and were in German
jails in exchange for the hostages, even killing the pilot
leaving only the co-pilot to fly the plane. It tells how the
German government under Schmidt‘s leadership acted at one point
to accede to the demands of the terrorists to buy themselves
time. They wound up storming the plane and saving the all
hostages and killing 3 of the 4 hijackers (the third one, a
woman who survived lives comfortably today a free woman in Oslo,
Norway, which is just outrageous.
Yes, the German government will do remarkable things to protect
its citizens and they don’t‘ pay ransom (unlike the Swedes who
did earlier and it just made things worse) to terrorists
kidnappers.
Sorry the clip is in German with Schmidt, with his usual
chain-smoking (he was so addicted to tobacco that he even sniffs
the stuff between smokes). But he was an extraordinary leader,
strong and brave man, and a generally wonderful human being.
Sorry the clip is in German without subtitles, so it‘s more for
Sofia, Nikola and Alharacas, but I loved it and have seen it
several times.
HTML https://youtu.be/8NcpCOumh0s
HTML https://youtu.be/CCky5x3J40I
HTML https://youtu.be/1vF0RbAjCVM
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